Hi Everyone at the Bee Forum:
I'm active in a paranormal, ET, ghost, bigfoot and other things that go bump in the night called Coast Riders Forum (a benefit to a paid perscription to a radio service called Coast to Coast AM starring George Noory, Art Bell and Ian Punnett - it is America's Number One late Night Radio Broadcast (1am to 5am - 7 nights a week) but I choose to get their on-line content which includes the forum, MP3 commercial free podcasts sent to my desktop, etc..
Here is the posts from my topic I started on Out of Body Experience and all the replies to date. I'll leave out the original post which is you can read at www.beemaster.com/obe.html
if you want my FULL detailed understanding of what OBE and how it is a NATURAL OCCURANCE TO HUMANS which is NOW being scientifically studied in-depth.This is for everyone interested, but I copied (took longer than I thought it would - lol for LateBee)
Here are the replies from other members in RED and my OWN WRITINGS in BLACK - STARTING WITH ME:
NOTE: My reply to the first responce to that epic post found at www.beemaster.com/obe.html - have fun reading these, I know to those of you interested it may be enlightening BEYOND what you already believe - to those who are interested but just not sure, you might find something to help cement your beliefs and to the total non-believers, nothing will open your eyes, but it could be a good FICTIONAL READ if you have nothing else pressing in yur busy schedule.
Beemaster's REPLY FROM ME to Coast to Coast Forum members in the Coast Rider Forum:
Sorry for my lengthy approach to things, I know I can get long winded, but I try to keep some order to my thinking, so that it flows well.
It is fascinating to think that this could be the next step in human evolution - stepping beyond the body and out into the endless reaches of time and space. I do though think it is coming soon and it will be commonplace.
Glad you are enjoying my post - I'm adding a bit more content to that topic soon, I already have some tips and techniques better detailing basic ways to fool the inner ear balance system to better trigger responces toward OBE. I promise to post them here once I get it all organized better.
Again thanks for reading that - I know it was a long one, but if it helps even one person better understand how natural (and even common) these events are, then it was worth every word typed.
Don't fear it, play with it - the very least it will do is strengthen your belief in the unlimited ability of the human mind and even spark a few ideas of your own how it can be used to make us humans more humane toward each other.
Beemaster From JKEYSER
I believe i have experienced this last year a couple of times, now since you seem to know a lot, I am currently pregnant 5 months and the other night i had experienced it again, but not all the way i made myself come out of it, so have you read anywhere about someone being pregnant and experiencing these things? I have tried to look up stuff on the internet but have not found anything pertaining to my situation. And also wondering if i am experiencing this, is the baby also??? just curious.
Whoa. Probably the longest post I've read. Congratulations though it was interesting enough that I did finish it. There are quite a few interesting points. I think I've been close to having an OBE but I don't remember the vibration feeling. I do remember voices and weightlessness and the paralysis though. Most of the time when I feel like I'm getting close I get freaked out and don't want to leave my body, almost like I feel a sense of foreboding out there.
This is an interesting article...
The Out-of-Body Mindset
By: Zara Herskovits
Summary: A brain region is linked to out-of-body experiences. The Seat of Soaring Consciousness. What the mind does in a near-death experience.
For centuries, people who described floating out of their bodies were dismissed as being out of their minds. A recent case study offers insight into this phenomenon, in the first clinical description of an out-of-body experience that was induced in a controlled setting....
Glad to see this topic finally getting some attention - I posted that original post a while ago and was hoping some others had interest
The toughest thing is to let go when the vibration state occurs, it is VERY intense, nearly painful - almost like an electric muscle stimulator but NOISEY with the accompanying sounds. Getting past the vibration isn't easy especially when it is very electrical in feeling.
You have to tell yourself to "Let go" and I've heard saying "Up and out" is a good mantra if you feel the need to say something when in a relaxed state. The good news is that you won't alway experience the vibrations - it can be bi-passed when the conditions are right, but I think it dwindles after many episodes of OBE also.
About being pregnant - man is that an interesting subject to study. I promise to search the net and even post some great sites that have helped me with my studies, but I don't have an answer right now. Personally, I believe you are two bodies sharing the same conscience collective - a "one and one makes three" kind of thinking where IF you are tuned into your conscience side, chances are you can also draw some of the energy and conscience of your baby.
I don't pretend to say "when" babies gain a conscienceness, but I "do think" it is long before birth. I don't think of engery floating around and looking for a body to attach itself to - and least not waiting for birth to occur before connecting with the physical body. There are so many interesting variables. If I had to think of it in logical terms, I'd say once the baby's brain has developed enough to accept or develope the conscienceness is when awareness occurs.
It starts to sound like a reincarnation thing, but it is far from that I think. I think our brains as a sponge made of special material which can filter only the types of energy that it is physically designed to hold. You are the make up of your genes and enviroment and later when you have self awareness, you can also alter your consciencessness.
Good and bad people are very different mentally, their mind's makeup dictates their personality as well as their conscienceness. It's not to hard to see how some people are very enlightened and it brings them great peace and adversely some are evil and filled with great hatred toward everything - I don't think there are too many people composed of each enlightenment and evil - those who are, are the true Anti-Christs of the world. The creatures capable of unimaginable horrors.
I rarely use the term spirit because of the ghostly sound or religious tone it can take, but I think conscience and spirit are synonomous terms - at least as far as our limited understanding of our Universe goes. But we are all magnets, as everything in the Universe with mass are. We are lucky in that we have the physical makeup and mental capability to express our feelings and emotions. That is why prayer and mass prayer are so powerful, they create a field of energy that can overlap other fields of similar energy magnifying the outcome.
My wife said one time after listening to me ramble on that our conscience energy sounds like adding detergent to a dishwasher, it enters and mixes and mixes around until it effects everything it comes in contact with - that is not a bad analogy at all.
Years ago I had started Tai Chi with the hopes to experience my own energy field out side of the body. It took weeks and weeks of trying simple repetitive motions to finally feel the very first time that I could recognise this energy. I had a powerful energy feeling between my hands and literally woke her up to see if she could feel anything between my throbbing palms. Sadly, she could not - but I'm sure that is a VERY different subject and it takes NOTHING away from experiencing the feeling oneself.
Here is a modified but simple exercise that I believe is a real aid to experience our own energy: I recommend this to anyone who wants to experience their own conscience energy without having to have an OBE.
Place your hands like you are holding a Slinky - both hand palms up or slightly tilted inwards and about 18 inches apart. Slowly move one hand up and the other down equally and imagine the weight of the slinky flowing from one palm to the other as the mass of the spring moves from hand to hand.
The trick is to seriously imagine that weight flowing from palm to palm as if the Slinky is really there. Try this maybe twice a day for about a week and or less and you will start to feel the smooth transistion of weight from hand to hand as if there were indeed a Slinky there.
Then slowly move your hand and arms around, keeping the palms parellel to each other and imagine what the amount of weight between the two would be at that point - meanwhile, try to imagine it more of a ballon able to expand outwards as the weight shifts and you will find with a little practice that there is an energy which repells your hands away from each other. It might help to move your hands with palms facing each other in slow figure eights and modify the angles of your palms to best feel the power of the energy.
Literally, you can feel tingling in the hands and as you press your hands toward each other, you can feel great resistance and if squeezing a ballon between your hands. Try tilting the palms slightly away from parellel and you will see that the weight/energy fades and moves in the direction the dominent hand (where the energy is AT during that particular motion - not a lefthanded or right handed person issue) and adjust the other hand to realign to capture the energy and again let it flow and balance between the hands.
With some practice, you can literally toss the energy away from the body as if it were conneced by a rubber band and pull it back in. I think of it as a large hola hoop feeling where the energy flows out and back toward you. Keep trying these different steps and the energy will come quicker and quicker as you sit down each time. You are looking for VERY SMALL differences in weight shifting but the force (once felt) is undeniable - it can be as powerful a feeling as the vibration state - which it is VERY MUCH LIKE.
Meditators, Yoga students can also feel the balance differences in weight as they move about doing their thing. Remember as I said in the first post, much of the OBE is a balance difference in the inner ear: finding the perfect head position when you sleep can greatly aid your OBE attempts.
Balance is the key to all these variations. There was an old saying I remember a teaching saying when I was a kid "You could balance an elephant on top of a vertical standing pencil if the weight were distributed right" That saying for some reason NEVER left me - and now I totally understand that.
In order for all these to work, you need to find yourself in a place of near perfect balance (even if all you are balancing is your hand relative to each other - as in the Slinky exercise) or the inner ear when attempting OBE. These minute changes in weight allows all the physical body parts involves to be balanced on top of the vertical pencil and ANY CHANGES in the conscience being can then be felt - you are literally holding the physical body in zero gravity relative to the conscience being. That is when you are able to feel the minute' energy of the consciencess at play.
Remember, the mass of the body holds the consciencess inside it - like the people on Earth are held to the planet. Gravity is a very formitable force. But we know it can be overcome, we can just jump and leave the Earth, if only for a second - but it can be done.
OBE or these other experiments with the conscieneness are very similar - you are trying to leave you body, something you rarely do (probably as often as your body leaves the ground) and before you can master the exercises, you need to recognise the subtleties. Balance is the key and recognising how powerful the mass of our bodies compared to a near weightless conscience will greatly help you on your way.
Hope that has helped some. More next time - off to work now. I'll check in to what I can find on pregnancy, that is really interesting, I can't wait to find something and share.
Talk again soon
We have read a fair amount on this but none so well put as yours. We are new to attempting this and have yet to take flight. Will keep you all posted.
Myname is Rick.Recently graduated from Engineering and am looking for an E.I.T position.I would realy appreciate some contacts from my fellow coast to coast listeners.I am Angela his wife Homeschooling our kids and am a hypnotherapy student.
Thanks Beemaster, I will be looking forward to your future posts.
From Potato peel
Would you all be interested in writing a bit about yourselves.
I'm interested in knowing your background Beemaster. Male/fem. That goes for you all.
Tell we write again,
Angela and Rick
It happened to me several times between undergrad and grad school. I am hesitant to tell people becasue they think I am nuts. But here are some of my thoughts.
1) I believe that real OBE's are closely related to that fine line state of sleep. Your body (brain) disables the motor funtions so that you don't act out your dreams. This is closely related to sleep paralisys, a state I think is closely related to OBEs
2) We've all had that dissasociated feeling, like meditating or 'runners high'. And we have all had those flying dreams, but when you 'pop' out of your body it is different.
3) I think the buzzing sound was actually a hieghtened hearing. I could hear the blood rushing in my ears, the sound of the air. Imagine that silence that gets called deafening. Then amplify that.
4) This is really weird. I think electronic noise seemed to hamper the ability to experience OBE. I have never heard anyone else talk about this. I had lots of electronic equipment running in my house. Long story, I had several experiments set up. Some of them required very high wattage. I never OBE'd when that equipment was on. I OBE'd when I all that was off. Also, the house where it occured was far out in the country, no noise, no street lights out side, nothing.
5) Even weirder. I didn't notice it at the time but after looking back on it one day I think full moon and new moon were the most common nights, however, with only a few experiences it could be purely anectdotal. However, if my theory about electronic noise is correct I suppose geomagnetic environment could have an effect. (that feels like a stretch)
6) Since it occurs on that edge of sleep and wake, it is more common when you are well rested. It can commonly occur when you are well rested but not sleeping regularly. I was on break between school. I was napping a lot. I had no set sleep schedule.
7) Everytime it occured I was sleeping on my back.
Search out the work of Benhajamin LeBlanc, a French Canadian who studied night 'visitations' .
9) Ever since then I sometimes hear what I call 'The Committee of Sleep' (I don't know where I got that)
10) I think the first time it had happened I drank a mug of coffee then fell asleep. I always thought that the coffee started to work after I was asleep, and helped put me on the edge of sleep and awake.
So thats it, find yourself a secluded place where you feel comfortable sleeping. Lay on your back. Get lots of rest. experiment wtih caffine if you must but don't use any of the weird drugs, try t do it yourself. Turn off all the crap around you, get rid of electronic noise, and regular noise as well.
When you hear that loud buzzing cacaphony, just let it happen. I tried to sit up, and popped out of my body and floated there above the bed, near the ceiling, watchin the digital clock tick away and the dog breathing peacfully.
I never tell anyone that.
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From Agent MBI
I recently had surgery and experienced several OBE's the following day while resting. I used to get them all the time when I was a teenager up until my mid-20's.
"You are born with the truth, then taught a lie"
Great posts here - thanks for the kind words about my theories. I don't think I've opened up the door yet, but I believe my key fits the lock - someday I'll be able to turn that key - but as with all of us, I think on THAT day it will be a one-way trip to wherever we go from here
About me, I am a boiler plant operator for the Navy, I work at Navy Lakehurst where the Hindenburg Crashed on May 6th, 1937 (about 1 mile from here) - full bio at www.beemaster.com/bio.html
but the links in my signature below can also give you some insight to my interests.
SHREDDER: I agree with so many of your points. The BEST way to experience the OBE is on your back, which incidentally allows for the easiest inner ear balance - sadly for me, I am a stomach sleeper and trying to perfectly balance the fluids THAT way would smother me - lol.
The magnetic energy of high wattage equipment, sound and other equipment seriously makes sense when you are dealing with near weightless energies. I say "near weightless" because it makes sense that "in order for the mass of the physical body" to effect the conscienceness, the conscienceness needs to have mass too!
That was the theory of the movie 28grams - when you burned the body, you could account for all of its weight minus 28grams which they tribute to the soul. Interesting concept and I can't imagine the true weight, but I do believe our conscience does have mass.
About sleep paralasys (which I didn't mention in the last post) it is scary as Hell - I don't wish that on anyone UNLESS they are seeking OBEs and are using it as proof of the experience. The time we are away from the body is interesting to imagine - is it seconds, nanoseconds, minutes? Can we really assume everything we experience during OBE is in REAL time?
I do know that when you have paralasys it is in REAL TIME recovering control over your motor function. I know I have been "down for the count" for nearly a minute where I had no idea what on Earth was happening - it wasn't really as if I were glued to the floor, but better put, I had no feeling to speak of, as if my entire body fell asleep like a hand or foot can do. My head was trying to thrash around with absolutely no helf from anything from the neck down.
Regaining control though was not a slow and painful process as a foot waking up can be - once my MIND was back in control, my body got right up and went about its business. So it was like a switch flipping when the control returned, but a scarey 60+ seconds waiting for it to happen.
About the vibrational state - you mention the deafening noise in the silence - that is pretty good indeed. I think it goes beyond hearing, well into the actual body, and as I think about it - it very well could be an ALL SYSTEMS SHUTTING DOWN noise, as if your conscience is killing all the circuit breakers to the motor control - putting everything Physical on Auto-pilot while the conscience takes a ride away from the body.
My own need to explore this topic literally came from my fear that something was wrong with me - I didn't know an OBE from Adam and luckily that program with William Bulman set me on a quest to understand this in a way that made sense to my doubting mine. I always had an interest in how we can tie theology and creationism together and I really don't think it all that tough if you think of the Bible as mostly parable - or better put - told in a way that average people could explain a very complex interaction of everything that is LONG before technical terminology was the standard.
If the Bible were written a thousand years from now it would be a very differently written book, but I think the message would be the same. I don't want to get into religions, but I do think though that BELIEF in a creator is a very positive force and sets us all on the correct path toward our own creation.
So again, check out the bio, and the other stuff at www.beemaster.com
if you are interested - I have a ton of topics, over 300 pages and I hope some interesting content. My site is my hobby, as is teaching beekeeping through the Internet. It keeps me busy when my brain wants to think too much - lol. Peace.
(((((( this added in the following post by me)))))
I am still at work, where I typed my last post. I got thinking about what really passes on from parent to child, still thinking about pregnacy here I guess.
There is no doubt in my mind that the brain is a physical part of the body, it is more miraculous in its ability than most body parts - but watch a talented person playing the piano, dancing, driving a Nascar, flying a plane, playing a video game... All that stuff is pretty miraculous when you look at it. Of course it all involves the brain, much subconsciously: playing the piano at lightning speed with independant hand movements could never be a conscience act.
I'm pretty fluent in morse code, I'm good at receiving 40 words per minute at about 100% accuracy. If I were to try and write the code down, I limit myself to about 15 to 18wpm and if I had to say -.-. is a "C" and do that with every letter, now I'm down to 5wpm.
The trick with any learned skill is to take a backseat to the action in the foreground - with morse code, you must simply listen and let the letters and words form in your head. But anything that is too fast for conscience actions is controlled by the subconscience and completed through muscle memory.
Just buy a new microwave which has a button you have to push rather than a handle you have to pull to open it - it could take you weeks and months to overcome the muscle memory of how you opened the old microwave. Lots of stuff have to happen, but you need to train those muscles through conscience actions to properly open the door - if left to the subsconscience, you would grab for a non-existant handle forever.
So the question on the table is: in OBE we are letting the conscience fly about, breaking the bonds of time and space - literally going where it wants or (if we can really master it) go where we want it to, as in remote viewing, etc.. But while all that is happening, what is going on with the SUB-conscience? Is "IT" in control of the body while we are away rather than thinking of it as on auto-pilot during the away trip of the conscience?
I've been thinking about this for an hour now, trying to prove or disprove any involement of the subconscience involement with OBE and so far I can not!
I'll layout two strange OBEs to try and prove or disprove this point.
The later OBE was interesting strange. I found myself with little vibration and no paralasys that I can recall - I think this could be BECAUSE my OBE away time was very short. I do think that the longer you are away from the body, the MORE paralasys you will experience. In a way, sleep paralasys is an away timer.
During this voyage I popped into a dimly lit brick walled and dirt floor basement. It was rich in colors and shadows. I didn't see anything that you would expect; a breaker box, a hotwater heater, etc.. It was wet and even the walls seemed wet and I was VERY close to the ground, as if I were at MOUSE height, but everything appeared normal size not giant as it must to a mouse.
I purposely looked around the room for a few seconds and I found a set of steps leading up. I tried to will myself to go up the stairs but somehow BREECHED my fragile OBE and popped back in body.
The earlier was fascinating. I spun in full circles upward, through the ceiling way above my home and far enough up to see my entire small town from a stationary spot in the sky. I notice (as in other adventures which took place outside) it was night but my eyes had adjusted well.
Whenever out and about, I have some degree of control, able to fly around and I have even rised to the upper atmosphere looking down and seeing details of the continents. Looking back, I don't know if these were accurate details of the landscape below, but it surely was Earth like in its makeup of water to land ratio.
I really don't know what snapped me back in body this time, but I think it was something outside of my control - like a car door slamming or something else. There was lag time, minor paralasys on this occasion but my recall was very good and it did not fade from my memory as a dream might.
In both cases I try to find subconscience interaction, either at the body or out in the OBE - but I can't think of anything that remotely called for subconscience activity. I am thinking that the subconscience has to be muted as well as the neccessary relaxation of the body.
Of course we have the different OBE state - the state of complete motion as I think I have called it prior. That is where you are so fully involved with repetitive physical motions that the subconscience is practically 100% busy and the conscience gets the opertunity to exit out of the body which and play.
Runners, speed walkers, production line workers, musicians playing and instrument all can step back (as if a third party) and experience their mundane or repetitive tasks from a viewers prospective. This is a great case to prove the subconscience can be in use while an OBE occurs.
Whether still or in full motion, the conscience and subconscience are indeed two distinct entities and under the right circumstance OBE can occur. I just believe that the subconscience really enjoys doing bodily things and the conscience wants to think and play. And once the conscience understands that the playground extends WAY beyond the body, then making those trips outside and beyond the flesh gets easier and easier.
It's just like driving a car, after a short time - you become the car. It becomes a product of muscle memory and subconscience movements. I know my wife zones out on her daily drive to work and often her 30 minute drive goes by spooky quick - lol. I got her interested in audiobooks and now she keeps her conscience busy while driving, which I think is better than doing some OBE thing.
So whether you give it nothing to do or have it juggle 10 balls at once, I think your subconscience is like a three way switch, you can turn it on or off at the top and bottom of the stairs. There is no middle ground where you can have OBEs, I honestly believe that to be so.
Sorry for the long back to back posts. Midnights at work can get long and with George Noory in the background and a heavy snowfall outside, I have a great background for writing these epic posts. Luckily I type fast and rarely rework the text - except for obvious spelling errors. But I feel that whatever comes out was suppose to come out - so I don't correct much unless "I" don't even understand it.
___________________________This from sideshow
I've experienced much of the same as you. Caffeine seems to put me in that in between state. I also noticed that electronics or such as a tv that is on but has no picture like one on a video 2 game input but the game is powered off, will not allow it to happen. I can hear the TV humming and I supposed I get distracted. The weird thing is that I've rarely had this happen when I'm sleeping on my stomach. But like I said earlier I don't remember the buzzing so maybe I'm just dreaming.
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."
This from Shredder
1) I am not convinced that the conscious actually is outside the body. It could be an illusion.
2) Sideshow, you mentioned that you werent sure if you were dreaming. You'll know if you pop out opf your body.
3) Sleep paralysis, I am convinced this is the first step to OBE. Hopefully you dont stay in that state long. The first time it happened to me i was paralyzed, I tried to sit up and the loud pop (rapid buzz sounds like a pop sort of) ,,,, loud pop and I was floating above my body. I couldn't mamuever that well, but I was there, conscious, I saw the numbers on the clock and I never see numbers or text that clearly or literally in my dreams. I believe sleep paralysis is the first step is dissasociating your mind from your body.
so there is a distinction between this and a regular dream, BUt it could still be an illusion that you are actuallly out of your body.
I do not believe that the conscousness would have mass. It would be an electromagnetic field. Thats why electronic equipment would inhibit it.
The old mystics used to dig a deep hole to OBE, that would sheild you from geomagnetic activity.
The myth of 28 grams comes from an experiment where they weighed people on the edge of death. However, back then, thier measurement equipment would have been inaccurate. A living body is moving always. There is an experiment with lasers to show this (too long for this) but the body is always vibrating due to heart beat, respiration , and muscle twitching. When that movement stops the scale would stabalize. This 28 grams sounds like a measurement mistake. IT was repeatable because the same equipment was used for several bodies, then a conclusion was made.
If the spirit is able to transcend time and space, then it does not have to obey our physics. It is, in effect, non physical. Mass is a physical property.
When I hda OBE's , the initial ones where I was floating over my body seemed real, as I tried to get far away from my body the things that started happeneing were more like dreams.
That first one I was over my body watching the clock change and watching the dog breath as it slept, that seemed very real.
It went on for about a month and one night I decided to see if I could make it to the moon. As soon as I strayed the whole thing took on the feel of a dream.
This from Shadowolf
Beemaster, what do you think about a link between hypnosis and OBE's? do you think it would be possible to hypnotize yourself or someone else in order to make it easier to enter the obe? i, myself, am an amateur hypnotist and interested.
I think getting to that extremely important relaxed state surely could be assisted by hypnosys, I can't imagine why not - if someone in an operating room can experience OBE with a crowd present, I would assume a hypnosist could also remain to watch the experience.
The sad point though is I don't think there is anything to see - it will all be done through reflection after the event. I imagine witnessing the sleep parallasys would be the only real event that could be monitored.
Interesting question, but I surely agree that self-hypnosys or by using he skills of other sure could aid the experience!!!
I'm having a awareness myself as of late I want to share in a few words. I am starting to lean toward a profound paradgym of thought: that is that the conscience mind is a further split from a cojoined energy source. Let me explain.
So often in the posts we talk about the conscience being attached to the physical being - the conscience leaves for short times and we call it an OBE.
Now, at death: I am really thinking a second effect takes place where the conscience separates itself from the energy and it is the energy that goes on - the conscience (the collection of lifes experiences in a mindly manor) end forever - BUT the energy which was shaped by the conscience's life experiences does go on and joins the rest of the Universal energy.
The conscience roll in life, ends MUCH as did the physical body's roll in life - the final out come, the pure energy (however strong or weak according to the experiences and learnings and growth of the being) is the final and lasting stage - no longer restricted by control of conscience thought.
This isn't new, we have all heard that only the good things that we did are remembered by the people we meet in the after life. I think that may be PARABLE and not exactly meant as quoted. I think that:
1) if conscience thought DOES remain, it is separate from energy and has its own plain of existance where other consciences exist - this I'm no long as sure of.
2) that energy (without conscience restrictions) can be better put to use - something like a grounding cable allows lightning or electricity to go to ground - it becomes a catalyst.
Just a few thoughts as my own experiences (I lost my Father-in-law and was very active during his final days by his side and aftwards) and this who conscience/body/energy thing has rolled around in my mind a million ways.
This from Shredder
I would worry that the hypnotist could suggest that you were having an OBE and you would basically 'dream' it.
I know for me the few times I had the full blown experience, it just seemed like this was something way different from the 'flying dream' taht can seem so similar.
This from Sideshow
Do you consider your conscience to be your soul or do you think that is different? Also, if your conscience leaves the dying body how do we know where to go?
This from Shadowolf
hypnosis is nothing like dreaming. it is the state between dreaming and consicous. basically the state that beemaster described as the beginning of obe is hypnosis. also, beemaster, it is possible to remember everything that happened during hypnosis. while youre hypnotized you know what is going on and what is happening around you, if nothing else youre extra sensitive to your surroundings. i see no reason why hypnosis would hinder the obe experience.
Is the Conscience the soul - that is tricky. It gets tricky because of where I think the splits occur - if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are true - the Holy Spirit part is what I assume or conscience goes to and becomes part of.
But I think those terms Father, Son and Holy Spirit are PARABLE - words used to describe a rhelm that we STILL to this day do not grasp. I can only imagine that if the Bible were written today, it would be worded very different.
Personally I believe the conscience is the devine part of us that is reclaimed into the Universe - whether it is attached to the energy that drives it - or is separate from that, I don't know - no one does.
Many modern and historical philosphers agree that our spirit is the only part of the being that matters - our phyical upbringing and health sways the shaping of the spirit - grow up in a bitter house is much different from being brought up in a loving home.
Death is the ultimate OBE - if we have conscienceness then is the question - but while in our Earthly body our conscience is the driving force of our life, I hope and pray it continues on in all cases, reflecting the person we truly were in life, not the hundred masks we wear every day as we weed our way through different people, work, traffic, family, friends. We all wear many hats, but the soul is thought to be in the abdomin - thus the reason so many belly wounds lead to death.
Sorry for no clear answer - we can only hope that we all get to experience the after life consciencely (that would be the ultimate experience) does it happen, we don't know. In NEAR DEATH (when the energy and conscience are attached, yet those are separate from the body) we have conscience recollection - it may not be that way in the REAL end.
This from Shadowolf
lol, no i have not smart ass. but i think, theoretically hypnosis would help. i am interested and i will try to see if self hypnosis with some of beemasters suggestions can help. i have been hypnotized and it sound as if it is closely related.
wasn't being a smartalec, really. just wondering. Sorry if it came off like that.
I've had some expisure to hypnotism (long story, not important here). I believe a big part of it is physical not mental. I suppose self hypnosis might be of assistance. I'd worry that if you had a hypnostist telling you "you feel like your flying, your out of your body" would just produce somehing that isnt an OBE.
Try getting away for a few days. Go to a cabin in the woods or something. Get lots of sleep, take a nap during the day. Then at midnight to 3AM drink a little coffee, 1 small cup no more. Then try to sleep. You want a clear night. Get rid of all electrical crap, go somewhere without electricity if you can. Make sure the bed is comfortable, when it starts you want your body to be comfy, you wouldn't want to be aware of a spring poking you in the back, thats a show stopper.
If you do it at home go around and shut everything off.
I meant the OBE has a physical as well as mental component, to have a successful trip, I am convinced it has to do with the mind shutting off motor functions so you don't act out your dreams.
The key is to become conscious while still in that state. Paralyzed, but don't panic realize that your actually free, stay calm. And when the buzz starts just think 'here we go' and sit directly up and float to the ceiling.
And if your one of these people who sees stuff in your room that scares you, ie shapes, shadows etc... tell it to go away if it bothers you, or talk to it.
how long did it take you guys after attempting to have an obe on purpose to be successful?
didnt attempt it. It just happened. I was in between undergrad and grad school living far out in the woods. It was very secluded. I had some very high voltage science experiments going on in my house.
The first night it happened was when i had everything turned off. My house was quiet. It was a full moon out. I came aware and awake and had sleep paralysis. I tried to sit up and instead popped out.
It then happened several more times that summer under similar conditions.
The first one was stark, very real, watching the clock change and the dog breath, and watching myself sleep.
In subsequent events I decided to try going farther out of my bedroom. As I strayed farther from my bedroom the experience got very freaky, and obviously had parts that were made up by my imagination (if not all). I met a being that looked like giant art deco metallic bird of prey, very sinister looking. It told me that this was the personification _I_ had chosen to see it as.
I hung out with it for a while and he showed me a few things.
Very strange and i don't ussually tell people about it.
what did he show you? was it frightening? do you think it was religious/spiritual at all?
I saw the house where i would be living during grad school, and the moon.
The one on the moon was filled with fanciful things from my own imagination. Again I was told that i was seeing things in a personification I choose for them.
In one of the last few times it happened i saw the house where i would be living grad school. For the most part it was incredably accurate.
This giant bird of prey was a terrifying presence. Maybe not evil, but still terrifying.
There was incident one that started out with the very real feeling of floating in my bedroom and watching myself sleep. I then floated around over the field near my house, that also was real. It seemed like as long as I was within a few hundred feet of my body the experience was very real. After that it became fanciful.
Seeing my future rental house though was kinda freaky.
When I got to grad school i arrived with my dog, as any dog owner knows looking for an apartment with a dog is not easy.
I found an add and called the lady, told her my situation, she wanted to meet my dog before making teh decision. The house was actually in the next town over. The house that had been shown to me in my OBE (astral travel - weird dream - whatever) kind of looked like the house in the old movie psycho. Not exactly, but it was distinctive.
when I followed the directions through this small country town and pulled up in front of the address I was floored. It looked like an exact match to what I could remember from that dream (OBE).
That was hard for me to rationalize because when i had the OBE it was all I could think about for a couple days. I had a lot of anxiety about going off to grad school. So I specifically asked this guide of mine to see the place I would be living when i got there. During the OBE I can remember being worried about finding a place with my dog.
So he showed me the house.
As I said, it was hard for a skeptic to rationalize as 'just a dream'.
As a last word on this. I never heard of an OBE when it happened to me. So I was fascinated when i heard identicle accounts from other people, including stumbling on a guide, choosing the personification of the guide and being told thats what happened, going to the moon, and being shown the future.
Also, the increased awareness, buzzing/pooping out of the body, sleep paralysis. It all matched what happened to me. BUt I had never heard of any of it prior to the event.
It is more common in your 20's or early 30's when sleep paralysis more commonly happens. It is my presonal theory that this is the time in your life when the endocrine controller glands in your head are going thorugh a profound change.
I still say foret about any of the mental stuff, concentrate on the sleep interuption, maybe some caffeine (nothing more potent, don't use drugs), nap during the day. Sleep on your back, turn of electronic crap, dont think about it.
Don't panic, that is a show stopper.
Thats about all i can tell you except to keep fillingin details abot my personal experience which i am hesitatnt to do because it makes me sound like some new age weirdo.
ok, so i listened to the most recent episode on obe and the guy makes it sound very creepy. did you see scary things when it happened to you? he says you shouldnt do it if you believe in demons...
OLD MAN SAYS:
do not know if mine was obe , dream , or i died on operating table and my spirit was leaving. a little background a little over a year ago doc said if i didn't have surgery had only 6 mths to live. after the 3 previous back surgerys the last one i contracted mrsa a staph infection in my spinal cord. well they took me to the operating room and put me under. when i finally came to i had this vivid memory of seing my mother , father , sons and wife in my empty hospital room talking amongst themselves and my youngest son who is 9 crying. i actually remember saying to myself i ain't supposed to be here i supposed to be in the operating room. thats what i rembered when i awoke so maybe it was just a dream i do not know.
Well my guide looked like something off of an Iron Maiden album cover.
Yeah, as you wander around, as you get farther from your body you'll meet things. See this is why i dont like to write or talk about it. I met a ghost who asked me to get out the details of her murder, she wanted people to know. I promised her I would and ran, it was a very frightening night for me. Weird stuff. It makes me sound like a nut.
it doesnt make you sound like a nut,m but isnt it dangerous? you could easily be influenced by a demon or evil? it makes me wander why you wuold want to walk around in spirit form and talk to the deceased? what good comes of any of it? sounds like it more scary than intriguing.
Like I said it just happened for me. I didnt ask for it and had never heard of it until i moved to grad school, into the house I spoke of. Then someone toled me about OBE's and I researched it.
I always wrote them off as dreams, its easier to rationalize, until i researched it and realized it was something different than a dream.
Well my guide looked like something off of an Iron Maiden album cover.
""""Yeah, as you wander around, as you get farther from your body you'll meet things. See this is why i dont like to write or talk about it. I met a ghost who asked me to get out the details of her murder, she wanted people to know. I promised her I would and ran, it was a very frightening night for me. Weird stuff. It makes me sound like a nut.""""
Did you ever follow up and get the details out for ghost?
About two weeks ago I had the buzzing feeling while laying in bed and my wife moved and woke me up. I think I was pretty close to popping out. I always seem to have a really bad feeling of dread as I'm just sitting there I feel like I'm awake but I know that I'm not. It is strange. There were also times when I was younger that I would see shapes in my room like an inky void in the shape of a flying creature kind of hovering wings flapping very slowly. Probably a dream but sure seemed real.
That feeling of dread is why i think it is beast to not know anything about OBE's first.
If you believe in demons you obviously believe in some sort of diety. Just drop some names and they'll leave you alone.
RE Ghost Info:
I'd rather not even go into this.
I have had problems with sleep paralysis for years. Over the past year, I have experienced OBE's while in this state. I scares the hell out of me with just experiencing the paralysis. When the OBE experience started I took steps to try to make sure I did not experience the paralysis at all. It seems that if I go to sleep with the radio or television on, something that gives me a reference to the real world I can avoid the paralysis and all the discomforting feelings associated with it. I can almost always tell when an experience is going to happen and get out of bed before I fall asleep to change my nightly habits and train of thought. It almost always starts with a seemingly irrational eery feeling of being watched while dosing off. This does not always work and still get surprised with an episode. I will describe the OBE if anyone is interested but I am more interested in knowing if anyone else has had the OBE experience associated with sleep paralysis. I am new to the board and to this site and actually found it by doing searches on the web about the subject. It is really starting to bother me. Thanks.
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:
1st, as self appointed presdent pf the local bad spellers club I'd like to welcome you to the board.
That scenario you described is very familiar to me also. You should put down your OBE. I found I ddint want to give every detail, but fill us in a little its a very intriguing subject and a lot of people will want to read it I am sure.
Luckilly for me the first few times it happened I never got that feeling of being watched. It was very peaceful. There was no one in the room but my dog. I know, because I had a birds eye view from the ceiling.
But I do know what your talking about by being watched. I think this might be related to 'night terrors' and even shadow people. People often report being frozen to the bed when seeing a shadow person.
You chould read back through this long series of posts too, I'd be interested in hearing your comments on all the crap I wrote.
Thankfully I stopped having them. I had them mostly for one summer and a few times the next year. As things progressed they got weirder. The last one was a trip. It involved a ghost who wanted to let people know how she died. I have never really told anyone about it because I saw specific details about a crime scene, location, make and model of a car, key details of the crime. I actually promised the ghost I would let people know. But I am afraid if I ever told anyone, and any of it turned out to be true, I'd be a suspect.
Thankfully that was my last OBE. I am perfectly happy without them.
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