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Author Topic: alsike & ladino clovers  (Read 1393 times)
rober
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« on: August 06, 2013, 06:04:24 PM »

anyone have any experience with alsike or ladino clovers? i'm wondering how the nectar & pollen compares to dutch white clover. the seed is considerably cheaper than dutch white.
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Joe D
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 12:24:50 AM »

I just have crimson and arrow leaf. They hit the crimson first and work it pretty good, then the arrow leaf.  Some of the fellows here have sweet yellow, it is supposed to bee good.  Maybe someone that has alsike and ladino will give you an answer.  Good luck




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10framer
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 09:33:36 AM »

i put out some ladino and crimson last year and they really didn't hit either one as hard as i thought they would but it turned cold then rainy.  my understanding is that ball clover is the beat all get all for nectar.  it's expensive, though.  i'm trying to find some to order now.  it will be time to plant it down here in about 60 days.
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rober
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 10:01:15 AM »

the sweet yellow is one of the best but is too tall for urban use. i just read about these clovers on a hay section of a farming forum. sounds like they don't fit my situation. the best price i've found on dutch white seed was at bucheits. $159. for 50#. i'm not familiar with ball or crimson clover.
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10framer
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 10:57:02 AM »

ball is a white clover that has a long blooming period and does well in so so soil.  crimson is red and some bees don't have long enough tongues to work it.  ball runs about 150.00 for a 25 pound bag from what i've found so far but haven't had a good chance to really research.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 11:44:09 AM »

the sweet yellow is one of the best but is too tall for urban use. i just read about these clovers on a hay section of a farming forum. sounds like they don't fit my situation. the best price i've found on dutch white seed was at bucheits. $159. for 50#. i'm not familiar with ball or crimson clover.


Rober,
I tried looking up bucheits but could not find one that sells clover.
This one says they sell it but I could not find a place to buy it:
http://www.buchheitfarm.com/p/pricing_06.html
Is it a locar store? I found a couple of them.
$159. for 50#. sounds like a great deal.
I have some white clover on the farm but not much and would like to plant more.
Jim
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rober
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 12:15:25 PM »

i think that bucheits might only be in eastern mo & s.w illinois. i saw the seed at their herculaneam store. ladino & sweet yellow clover was $109.00 for 50#( $2.18# ). dutch white was $159.00 for 50 # which is still a decent price ( $3.18 # ). dutch white seems to be bringing $4.50 -$8.00 # locally. thing is 50# is way more than i need. fenton feed store has the next best pricing for ladino, dutch white, & sweet yellow if you are buying smaller quantities.
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splitrock
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 08:08:13 PM »

The jury is out on the Alsike I planted this year yet, it has just recently started blooming. I'll have more info in the near future. They say bees can put up 500lbs of honey per acre off a good stand of it.
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RC
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 07:26:20 AM »

I just read on the UF site a few nights ago that alsike was a major honey plant in Florida at one time.
I keep hearing that bees can't work crimson clover, but they were literally all over mine this year. I plan to plant a mix of a sweet, alsike, white and crimson this fall.
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millipede
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 07:53:33 AM »

Bees do indeed work crimson clover. I think it is confused with red clover for some reason. Crimson clover has long blood red flower clusters where red clover is a big pinkish ball. The red clover has flowers too deep for the honey bees tounges.
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10framer
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 08:52:08 AM »

some bees can't work crimson because they have short tongues.  italians can work it fine and i think carniolans can too.  i know a guy up in missouri who's bees won't touch it.  there are more productive varieties of clover, though.
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rober
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 09:26:27 AM »

the dutch white & ladino will bloom when mowed to 4". the problem i see( for me ) for the rest of these clovers is their height. they are fine in a pasture but will not work in a lawn & i'm limited as far as the areas where i can grow a taller clover.
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10framer
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 11:06:19 AM »

crimson gets pretty tall.  if you're backyard beekeeping you might look at planting some beneficial trees if you have the room. 
down here tulip poplar trees yield more than clover (not sure how well they do in missouri) and privet probably yields at least as much (it was my best flow this year).  sumac can be comparable and it grows in all 48 continental u s states.  chinese tallow (again don't know how they take the cold and they are considered invasive) are big producers.  i've read that beebee trees put out a lot too.
i'd be researching those if i were you.  holly puts out a little nectar too. 
i think it takes acres of clover to produce the same amount of nectar as a tulip poplar.  i'd have to check that to be sure, though.
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rober
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 03:05:07 PM »

i have a neighbor 1500' west of me who has a row of 25 tulip poplars. i have a black locust & a linden tree & a dozen peach & cherry trees. they're great to have in the spring but the clover & many of the flowers in my garden ( plus whatever else they find )get the bees thru the later part of summer. the drought last year burned most of the clover around here & it really affected the bees ability to build up for winter. right now they are working my clover, cosmos, russian sage, & oregano blooms. i plant my vegetable patch rows far enough apart to accomodate my lawn mower so i can plant clover between the rows. the clover helps the bees & puts nitrogen back into the soil. it's easier to mow than to weed. i do weed between the plants.
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capt44
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 05:59:56 PM »

I have 3 registered bee yards that are mostly crimson and arrowhead clover.
The land of the 3 land owners comes to around 400 acres of clover.
My bees work the crimson and white clover very good.
Around June 1st winds it up though and I have to move the bees to another location.
Here is a picture of one of the clover fields.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2013, 06:33:38 PM »

clover comes in before tulip poplar down here.  crimson is gone by mid to late april and the white clovers are done before june.
the yellow clover comes in just before the crimson.
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MsCarol
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2013, 07:32:52 PM »

clover comes in before tulip poplar down here.  crimson is gone by mid to late april and the white clovers are done before june.
the yellow clover comes in just before the crimson.

Except this year. My basic white clover is still blooming. It is the one pasture plant that can tolerate and flourish with over grazing.

I am really hoping to twist my farmers arm into adding crimson clover to the mix on at least one field when he seeds in the wheat this fall. I think the clover will have died down by combine time. Right now the fields are in commercial soybeans although i haven't seen much bee activity. I did sit on the edge of the field to observe.
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10framer
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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2013, 09:24:24 PM »

you're pretty far north of me carol.  my neighbor mowed his white clover in april (around 30 acres) and it bloomed until almost june but i never saw bees on it.  my bees passed it up and worked privet instead.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2013, 10:15:11 PM »

If your clover stops blooming mow it, its like dandelions, they'll grow back and bloom again.  I have white dutch in my pastures and yard and mowing always brings another round of bloom.
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RC
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2013, 09:30:46 AM »

I've ordered from this place before, good service.
http://www.hancockseed.com/
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rober
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 09:45:50 AM »

as long as there's enough rainfall my dutch white blooms all summer & into the fall. it does not produce decent nectar & pollen until the temp hits 80* & above. mowing stimulates new blooms.
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10framer
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 10:56:25 AM »

this year we were pushing 80 in early january.  i quit hunting deer because i was worried about rattlesnakes.
all the rain has kept it mild by our standards.  i don't think we've hit 100 a single time this year and that's unusual.  we usually have a few weeks where we hover around or above 100 in july and august.  how does white clover hold up to those temperatures and drought conditions?  i can't ever recall seeing clover bloom into june.  normally we are very very dry in the summer too.  this has been a really strange year.  i'm betting we have a cold winter (by our standards).
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rober
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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 11:11:53 AM »

dutch white can take the heat but not drought.
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10framer
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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2013, 11:46:14 AM »

yeah, normally the rain just cuts off in june and other than an occasional shower it doesn't show back up until october or november.  our honey flow is mostly over by june 1st and then we get some weaker fall flows.  people near cotton may do a little better in the simmer.  so much land is in planted pines now compared to when i was younger that it has really changed beekeeping from what i can tell.
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