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Author Topic: 6 billion light year old radio signal heard - designed for Earth's listening  (Read 3746 times)
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« on: August 06, 2013, 12:25:26 AM »

I'm looking for an article of this to post, but I caught part of this on George Noory's Coasttocoastam.com show.

An annex receiver of SETI briefly picked up a radio signal, so shocking in possibility that it may be the most incredible story I have ever heard - and definitely the most amazing science story to ever if true.

At the end of July, supposedly a broad band radio signal was captured briefly from a place estimate to be transmitted from 6 billion light years away from a relatively unmapped area that is normally blocked by countless other galaxies between there and here. I'll get to why this is important, not just because a signal was detected, but what the implications are BEYOND the fact that 6 billion years ago life may have transmitted a signal out into space - no, this goes way beyond this.

The galactic alignment issue is big for starters, because of the shear stuff between here and there, the radio guest said it will be decades before a line of sight (okay, space curves - but include that if you wish) decades before we can figuratively point at it again. But in just that briefest of signal, the following was gathered.

The short signal reception, only a few seconds long, was composed of bursts only about a nano second in length, but spaced EXACTLY (atomically speaking) ONE SECOND APART

If you missed the last line above, reread it, and start to ponder what that means. Time (Earth time) is relative to how far from the sun we are, the length of a PLANETARY year, man's own division of time into days, hours, minutes and seconds: all this is an EARTH thing, and nowhere else in the Universe is there likely a planet with the same exact distance from its sun, rotation speeds, etc. so...

ANY SIGNAL spaced in PERFECT EARTH SECONDS would be signals made/sent to Earth, but then throw in that we are talking about 6 billion light years away in our 13 to 16 billion year old Universe, so then comes the "way too" amazing part:

You have a civilization that aimed a specific signal toward a place in a distant galaxy where a planet had not even formed yet, transmitted that signal in a a way that is specifically unique to our planet's measure of time and when we will be technologically advanced enough to receive it and understand the significance of the duration of the signal.

If this were Sci-Fi people would laugh at it, but SETI is analyzing this blip of data and we surely should hear more, lots more. Of course, how many times have findings been covered up as hash noises, reflections from space junk, etc.?

I agree it seems impossible by all standards, standards of our logic, knowledge of time, space, radiowaves, time warping. Could the signal received have literally been sent exactly at the time we received it, tossing out how we understand time, speed of light, etc? Literally, did we get a message faster than a text message from somewhere at that incredible distance? Could beings be advanced enough to warp time, see where we are, what we have to receive their message and instantly (defying our understanding that light is the fastest thing there is) and bypassing it all by wormhole, or whatever - all of which, although incredible, seems more likely than the first part of this bizarre story.

Either way, we may have heard from someone else, time will tell if the details are either released, discredited or redacted. Just remember engineers thought that a train traveling more than 80 mph was possible, but humans would not be able to withstand breathing at such speeds - we thought the world was flat, never ending or you fell of the end (I think the prior not the latter) but ships made of steel, never happen - they're to heavy. Radio signals from billions of light years away delivered instantly, no way, nothing travels faster than the speed of light.

We have been proven wrong countless times, that is how we evolve and further our understanding of the big picture. I sure hope to find more on this, and even though (at best) this may be a message in a bottle, we have been on that beach, searching for that bottle a long time - cool if it finally washes ashore.

 
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2013, 10:21:00 AM »

>ANY SIGNAL spaced in PERFECT EARTH SECONDS would be signals made/sent to Earth

Only if they knew of the arbitrary divisions we came up with.  A year is measurement based on astronomical regularity.  The time it takes for our planet to circle the sun.  A day is based on astronomical regularity, the time it takes for our planet to complete one rotation.  A month is the amount of time between full moons (but we cheated it down from 13 actual full moons to an arbitrary 12 months which does not match full moons at all).  Then we arbitrarily decided to divide a day into 24 hours with no astronomical connection at all, and arbitrarily decided to divide those into 60 minutes.  It just as easily could have been 10 "hours" in a day and 100 "minutes" to a hour and 100 "seconds" to a minute by simply dividing a day into 10 and each of those into 100 and each of those into 100.  This system was actually used in China at one time in the past and in France after the French revolution.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in a hour and 60 seconds in a minute are all arbitrary.  If we had not adopted the Roman calendar and timekeeping system we might have something entirely different.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Time_measurement_systems  The Roman system came from the original idea that there were 360 days in a year (which was mistaken as there are 365 days 8 hours and 10 minutes in a year) and so a circle was broken up into "days" which we called degrees.  Hence 360 degrees in a full circle.  Then, since we were on the track of something that divided evenly into 60s we went with 60 minutes and 60 seconds in a degree  They carried this over into minutes and seconds in a day even though they divided the day (degree) into 24 first and did not do the same with a circle...

Anyway, the point is that a second is a totally arbitrary unit of measurement.  Now if "the"y know something about us as a people, and not just our planets cycles, "they" might know something about how long a second is...

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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 11:28:26 AM »

maybe "they" just sent out an evenly space signal and it happened to match our seconds?  or, it came from the future...or the past! 

seems to me that the evenly spaced part is more important than the time measurement? 
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 12:07:37 PM »

>seems to me that the evenly spaced part is more important than the time measurement? 

I did not intend to downplay the "evenly spaced" part.  That is certainly significant.
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 03:40:27 PM »

Got to think.... how was it to remain evenly spaced traveling all those light years away?

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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2013, 11:39:20 PM »

Does not matter how far they travel, if they are transmitted at even intervals they will be received at even intervals. They maybe compressed (shortened) or stretched (expanded) due to the relative speed between us and them, depending on whether we are moving towards them or away from them but the spacing will remain the same especially considering the short length of time they were received.
Jim
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 08:50:15 AM »

>how was it to remain evenly spaced traveling all those light years away?

They would all be traveling the same speed, 186,272 miles per second.  It's not just a good idea.  It's the law.
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 03:18:27 PM »

Laws are mean to be broken, especially if it is our law and not theirs. My whole point, isn't the distance and knowing what a SECOND is here (well not alone) but those two things are remarkable - as Michael says, they'd need to know something about us, so...

I go by the theory that something that far away is how long at light speed it would take to get there to here, here to there: but what if the signal was sent like an email or text, instantly, through means of warping time a civilization that far away, but alive and well and WATCHING US planned out the alignment issues and sent a signal instantly. We can say lightspeed is a law all we want, but man couldn't fly either, and forget about getting to the moon (both explainable through laws as we understand them and technology at least advanced to make the trips and back) but we can't instantly go from the US to Australia, but with phones, computers, etc we are there in all but body.

Michael, I wonder, do you doubt there will ever be time travel or teleportation discovered in our human history, no matter how far in the future it may be? Is it just stuff of science fiction, or could man advance enough to master such feats?

I like to think we can things today that appears as magic just decades ago - we too should have magic to look forward to. If not us, at least generations to come.

So to think a civilization at least capable of instantly gobsmacking us with a signal in real time from such a great distance (to me) is nothing more than USING the laws, not breaking them. Because I doubt we have all the laws yet, science would just pack up and go home if we did.

We have test cars now with hundreds of thousands of accident free autonomous driving, car manufacturers trying to inject these techniques into automotive standards, common place will be the driverless car, no finally in the foreseeable future. And were not talking Google's test cars either, factory production higher end cars are ready to get these in their show rooms. Sure it is all explained, and in this car case, light speed and GPS technology is crucial, but I just don't know that we can say the same rules apply, nor that they can't be broken or tweaked beyond our understanding. I think we are too new at all this stuff to believe we have it all right.


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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 04:10:50 PM »

I wouldn't read to much into it. many things send out frequency waves naturally, pulsars/etc. what we could be dealing with quite easily is 10 monkeys in a room with a typewriter eventually writing the worlds greatest novel. There are only a certain number of factors within a set amongst unlimited and continuous factors....eventually those factors will be anything and everything within that set, if continuously changing.
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2013, 09:15:19 PM »

>Michael, I wonder, do you doubt there will ever be time travel or teleportation discovered in our human history, no matter how far in the future it may be?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."--Clarke's law #3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."--Clarke's law #1

>Is it just stuff of science fiction, or could man advance enough to master such feats?

Based on what we currently know it appears impossible.  But so did a lot of things that we've already done at some point in the past.

It seems more probable that we could jump forward in time than backwards... after all that is the direction that time travels...

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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 11:38:13 PM »

The future does not exist yet. It will be formed by every decission we make and the reality we experience will be forged by the multitude of those who interact with us. By making this post, and by you reading it, I have changed the timeline of your future in some way.
The past has existed and the events that made it what it is have happened. It MAY be possible to go back and wittness events, but if there is any interaction, even to your being seen, the timeline from that point forward will be changed and it may be impossible to return to your present.
   
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