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Author Topic: is this hive worth salvaging?  (Read 1058 times)

Offline rober

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is this hive worth salvaging?
« on: August 01, 2013, 10:12:31 PM »
i have a hive that went queenless. i introduced a caged queen & put tape over the candy plug for 5 days. 5 days after the tape came off they were only 1/2 way thru the candy & the bees seemed to be ignoring the new queen so i removed the remaining candy & put the cage back into the hive. a week has passed & now there is no sign of the queen & there is no brood. this late in the season would it be worth trying another queen or should i just combine them with another hive. the population is down & i'd probably have to give them some frames of brood to help the population numbers & to prevent laying workers

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 10:15:56 PM »
A frame of open brood will postpone laying workers.  One a week for three weeks will resolve almost any queen issue.

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Offline rober

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2013, 10:25:55 PM »
thanks for that michael. the flow is over here. do most queens slow down there laying now? the brood levels seem low in my other hives.

Offline hiram.ga.bee.man

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 10:27:39 PM »
Need more info. How big is the hive? How much food stores do they have?
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Offline iddee

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 11:29:36 PM »
"" A frame of open brood will postpone laying workers. One a week for three weeks will resolve almost any queen issue.""

That's true. On the other hand, 3 frames of brood and a bit of feed and you can start a nuc. Who needs the queenless hive?
This late in the year, I would shake them out in the bee yard and let them find new homes.
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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 11:32:56 PM »
That's true. On the other hand, 3 frames of brood and a bit of feed and you can start a nuc. Who needs the queenless hive?
This late in the year, I would shake them out in the bee yard and let them find new homes.

Good point there id
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 06:53:09 AM »
I'll second that Iddee.  :-D
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 09:25:30 AM »
> do most queens slow down there laying now?

Some races of bees (Carniolans, Russians, Caucasians, feral survivors) tend to shut down brood rearing in a dearth.  Italians tend to raise brood anyway.
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Offline rober

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2013, 10:14:53 AM »
this hive was supposedly some sort of carniolan/hygenic mix. i got 3 nucs of these bees in mid may & i'm not impressed with any of them performance-wise. none have built up much so far. my self queened captured swarms are doing much better than these nucs. the hive in question is low on stores & the population is way down. shaking them out & putting a fresh nuc in the same location sounds like a better plan.

Offline rober

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 06:25:08 PM »
i came up with another possible option today. I'm doing a hogan bee removal from a brick house. checked it today & the box was loaded with bees & brood. so either the bees made a supercedure queen from a frame of brood that i gave them or the brood drew out the hive's queen. today i pulled out 5 frames of bees with some brood. i left a frame of brood in the box & added 5 frames of drawn comb. i put the trapped bees in a nuc & put the nuc on top of the failing hive. I'll check it in a couple of days To see whether i have the queen. if i do I'll put the nuc in deep hive body & do a newspaper combine on the weak hive. sound feasible?

Offline iddee

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2013, 06:56:32 PM »
Five frames with a "maybe" queen and 15 frames of empty comb? Sounds like a great SHB and wax moth incubator. I would just start a nuc with the five frames and shake out the old bees in front of it.
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Offline rober

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 08:15:50 PM »
well it's no longer a maybe. there is a queen.  i installed the cardboard portable nuc of bees from the trap into a nuc & put it on top of the failing hive. it has a full frame of brood from the trap. i rubber banded some natural comb with brood & honey into an empty frame & installed that with 3 frames of drawn comb. while doing all this i looked at my left sleeve & there was the queen!! i grabbed her & put her in the nuc. in a few days depending on the weather i'll grab more bees from the trap & put a 2nd story on the nuc. at the time i'll shake out the failing hive.

Offline rober

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2013, 05:12:50 PM »
well the bees decided for me. i'd put the nuc with the trapped bees & queen on top of the queenless hive. personal circumstances delayed the plans that i'd made to shake out the queenless hive. went thru the hives here at home this morning & found the nuc abandoned & several frames of brood in the now not queenless hive. it seems the trapped bees & queen moved into the hive.

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: is this hive worth salvaging?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2013, 12:36:10 AM »
this hive was supposedly some sort of carniolan/hygenic mix. i got 3 nucs of these bees in mid may & i'm not impressed with any of them performance-wise. none have built up much so far. my self queened captured swarms are doing much better than these nucs. the hive in question is low on stores & the population is way down. shaking them out & putting a fresh nuc in the same location sounds like a better plan.
> do most queens slow down there laying now?

Some races of bees (Carniolans, Russians, Caucasians, feral survivors) tend to shut down brood rearing in a dearth.  Italians tend to raise brood anyway.

My finding is that Russian, Carniolan, Caucasian, Feral, and Minnesota Hygienic have a tendency to use periodic brood dearths as a way of conserving food resources as well as control Varroa mites.  If you have an non-Italian hive it may not be queenless but just having a queen on hiatus.

Hives usually start shutting down brood rearing by mid-July tapering off and backfilling the brood chamber for winter stores.
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