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### Author Topic: 10 Frame TO 9  (Read 1331 times)

#### Stung

• New Bee
• Posts: 19
##### 10 Frame TO 9
« on: July 21, 2013, 10:24:04 AM »
I also wanted to know what is the benefits to going from 10 to 9 frames. Can it be done with 10 frames on two bottom deeps and then put 9 in the medium super.  I was told that if I do it, I have to start with 9 frames from the bottom up.  Is this true, or can I ten in the deep supers and 9 in the honey supers

#### Moots

• Guest
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 10:41:25 AM »
Stung,
I'm new to the world of Beek, this is my first year and I'm running 8 frame medium boxes top to bottom and haven't yet considered going to 7 frames instead of 8 in any of my boxes.  That being said, my understanding for running 9 instead of 10 frames in your honey supers is so that they will build out the comb thicker.  I think the theory is it'll hold more honey and is easier to uncap.  I think running 10 frames in your brood boxes is irrelevent to going 9 up above...As a matter of fact, I got the impression that's what most people do that go with this approach.

Sure others with actual experience that have done this will jump in....

Good Luck!  :)

#### Vance G

• Queen Bee
• Posts: 1156
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 10:51:49 AM »
No advantage to running 9 frames in brood boxes that I know of.  I like to run 10 and I have about half of my brood boxes with 11 frames shaved to fit.  I think 10 and a follower board to ease getting the first frame out would be about perfect for me.  9 in supers after the frames are drawn is absolutely the way to go.  8 in the super means you have an awful lot of cappings and honey to deal with.  If you are OK with that, seven works too.  Unless you have frames that hang low enough to leave no bee space between boxes, the number is insignificant to the bees.

#### Joe D

• Super Bee
• Posts: 2210
• Gender:
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 11:29:24 AM »
I have ten frame deep brood supers with ten frames, I do run some honey supers with nine frames and some with ten.  With nine frames in the honey super they will make the comb wider, which will hold more honey.  But you will want the ten frames in the ten frame brood super.  Good luck to you and your bees.

Joe

#### JWChesnut

• House Bee
• Posts: 230
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 11:39:11 AM »
Agree with Vance.
Anything less than 10 in the brood boxes is asking for trouble:
You get wonky comb and lots of drone brood.  You get bridge comb, and an inspection mess. You get comb that has folds and doubled areas.

The logic that comb number had to be consistent comes from the belief that the frames need to be lined up exactly to avoid blocking the bees moving up.

I don't observe that as a problem. The bees seem to ladder up the air space between the  boxes no matter what the frame count.  The usually build some bridge comb to connect the supers off the bottom bars of the box above.  Possibly the shift in spacing acts like a partial queen excluder-- divides the brood nest from the honey by the partial barrier.

I run 10 for brood, start with 10 for honey supers, and after the first extraction, I run 9 (or 8).  I never start with undrawn frames in loose spacing.  Two reasons: the frames are too heavy with honey to extract the weak, new comb-- they blow out, and the frames are likely to get  wavy comb from the spacing.

Pulling 1 or 2 drawn frames from each box at the first extraction has the advantage of letting me build up new supers that are pre-checkerboarded.  This is a huge advantage, as it allows me to super up very simply with checkerboarded pattern that encourage the bees to move up.

In tight spacing the outside of the 1st and 10th comb is usually initially skipped.  I rotate the comb into another position, or just flip it to face inward.

In my "eight frame" boxes I run 9 for brood, as the standard "eight frame" box dimension has an excess free space. (I don't know how or who set the dimension, but it has more slop than the 10 frame standard).  I run 8 for honey in the narrow boxes, but after experimenting with eight-frame, I am back to building mostly 10 frame boxes for my own use.  I sell the 8 frame hives to eager novices, however.

#### capt44

• Field Bee
• Posts: 715
• Gender:
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 01:16:12 AM »
I use 9 frames in my 10 frames medium boxes.
They tend to build the cone out further which aids in decapping with a hot knife.
I have a few 8 frame hives that I use 7 frames to the super.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

#### WarPonyFarms

• New Bee
• Posts: 34
• Gender:
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 01:38:06 PM »
We operate similar to JWChesnut:
I run 10 for brood, start with 10 for honey supers, and after the first extraction, I run 9 (or .  I never start with undrawn frames in loose spacing.  Two reasons: the frames are too heavy with honey to extract the weak, new comb-- they blow out, and the frames are likely to get  wavy comb from the spacing.

Pulling 1 or 2 drawn frames from each box at the first extraction has the advantage of letting me build up new supers that are pre-checkerboarded.  This is a huge advantage, as it allows me to super up very simply with checkerboarded pattern that encourage the bees to move up.

The brood cells are a uniform depth so their is no advantage to spacing them.
We run 10 or 11 frames in brood boxes, start with 10 in the supers to help get them drawn straight.  We then space them to nine frames so they are heavier and easier to cap.  I've never experienced ill effects from the transition between boxes.

#### Michael Bush

• Universal Bee
• Posts: 16121
• Gender:
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2013, 09:28:22 AM »
>No advantage to running 9 frames in brood boxes that I know of.

I agree.  The theoretical advantage is less crowding in the brood nest, easier to work and less rolling of bees.  In actuality I have found the opposite to be true.  The extra space causes less uniform comb which causes more rolling of bees and more trouble working the hive.  I shave the end bars and put 11 in a 10 frame box.

http://bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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#### Sasha

• New Bee
• Posts: 6
##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 02:57:47 PM »
The reason is really simple. When you check your brood box you have a bit of additional space, and you do not lose time prying the frames out. In big beekeeping operations time is money. If you are a small scale hobbyist, it does not matter.

#### rober

• Field Bee
• Posts: 704
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##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2013, 11:22:32 AM »
my mentor & his mentor started me off using 9 frame spacers in everything so i have no experience with 10 frame boxes. i've not had any problems so far. i'll probably not change to 10 frames in my supers but after reading michael bush's comments i might try some 10 frame brood boxes. i've also heard people say they worry that beetles & mites can hide under the frame spacers but i've found that the bees propolise them so fast that that is not an issue.

#### hiram.ga.bee.man

• New Bee
• Posts: 43
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##### Re: 10 Frame TO 9
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2013, 10:47:40 PM »
When I started beekeeping I used a nine frame spacer in a ten frame box.  Did that for many years.  One year I tried ten frames in ten frame box.  Then read Michael Bush website about eleven frames in ten frame box and tried that.  Loved it.  This year I have been running 9 frames in 8 frame boxes and crush way fewer bees because the combs are so perfectly straight.  Really, really like it. I also think the bees can police the combs better against SHB.  It seems to significantly help the bees because the combs are not so far apart or as thick.
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