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Author Topic: Smokey Taste?  (Read 1372 times)
L Daxon
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« on: July 19, 2013, 09:21:49 PM »

Since the wax caps on honey cells are permeable, can you smoke honey supers so much that the honey takes on a smoky taste?  How about using too much Bee Go or Fischer's Bee Quick.  Can they alter the taste of the honey?
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linda d
Nico
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 09:44:13 PM »

Hi Linda,
Yes, you can get a smoke flavour in honey when frames have been heavily smoked prior to extraction.
I did a cutout from a cable reel and was having trouble enticing the bees out of the reel. My offsider used excessive smoke  to move them and when the extra combs were extracted the honey definitely has a slightly smokey taste. We enjoyed that honey.
Nico 
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10framer
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 11:42:19 PM »

a lot of people say you can taste it.  i've never noticed it but i don't use much smoke.
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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 01:25:01 AM »

.
Yes, it gives taste and it is not good for honey.

Beeks use often cones, needle, grass and what ever which makes athick smoke. Smoke is vaporized tar and it condensates onto comb surfaces.

When I noticed that, I stopped to run out bees with smoke.

Another bad tool is heat gun in uncapping. It gives really bad aroma to the honey.

.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2013, 01:57:45 AM »

When I noticed that, I stopped to run out bees with smoke.
OK Finski, if you aren't using smoke to get your bees off the honey supers, then how are you getting the bees off?
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Hemlock
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 11:24:02 AM »

I don't know about Finski but when removing honey supers i do it a frame at a time with a bee brush.  The bee-less frames go into a box with a lid. Keep in mind i'm doing less than 10 hives at a time.  It's time consuming but for a few hives it no big deal.

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L Daxon
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2013, 11:31:43 AM »

Hemlock,
I too take my honey off pretty much one frame at a time as I come across completed ones in my hives.  But since the honey frames are usually at the top of the hive, they usually get the most smoke as they always get smoked first, whether I am getting in to do a full hive inspection, working my way down, or to just check on the progress in the honey stores near the top.
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linda d
Finski
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »


OK Finski, if you aren't using smoke to get your bees off the honey supers, then how are you getting the bees off?

I lift the honey box or boxes down. I wait 15 minutes . Bee suck themselves full of nectar.
Then I take the frame to my hand and knock with another twist on it. Some last 20 bees I may brush.

When bees are heavy and nervous, they drop like rippen apples in front of the hive. I may spread large paper on ground where bees drop and they walk into the hive.
- If it comes a rain shower, I cover the bees with sheet of newspaper. - Or if it is too cold weather them to walk.

Cleaning board is actually slow to work, but in bad weather it is only way to make supers empty.

.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2013, 10:29:31 PM »

Hi Linda,

Do you get ant smoke flavor to your honey?  I see what you mean about smoking the top box the most.  When i enter a hive i'll puff the front entrance then the top box after the lid comes off.  After that i really only use smoke if the bees get anxious or a high population blocks frame manipulation.  But i've never had smokey honey.  Then again i've never gotten the bees out of a box by smoking it; didn't even know one could do that.
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AllenF
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2013, 10:36:56 PM »

I have never tasted any smoke in my honey once it is harvested.  Maybe only when eating burr comb only in the field but as much as I eat, I just don't taste it. 
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2013, 12:15:29 AM »

If you ever put your honey in a honey show, part of test is smell and taste. If they detect smoke in the honey, they take a lot of points off.

Jim
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 01:06:53 AM »

.
If you do not taste smoke in your uncapping honey, your sense of smell is not in best condition.

When I read in forums, what guys use as smoking stuff, it is quite horrible. The worse smell, the better. Very odd.
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L Daxon
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2013, 08:43:33 PM »

Hemlock,
Last year I wondered if I didn't taste/smell a little residual smoke. 
I have 4 supers I am going to extract this week and I will lookout for a smoky taste.
I think from here on out I will just be a bit more careful with smoke around the honey supers to do my best to keep the smoke out of the honey.
And as Finski pointed out, I'll be careful what I use in the smoker.  I have been mostly using pine needles and cardboard.
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linda d
Michael Bush
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »

> if you aren't using smoke to get your bees off the honey supers, then how are you getting the bees off?

Were you under the impression that smoke is how you get bees out of the supers?  I have never heard it recommended.  It is not the right way to get bees out of supers.  You will end up with smokey honey if you try and they still won't get out.  A bee escape.  A brush.  A blower.  Some kind of repellent (Bee Quick, Butyric etc.).  These are the accepted methods.  If you do it when there isn't a dearth, abandonment right at sunset works well.
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Michael Bush
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Moots
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »

If you do it when there isn't a dearth, abandonment right at sunset works well.

Michael,
I'm familiar with all the other accepted methods you mentioned....However, I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by the above statement...can you please expound.....Thanks! 
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Santa Caras
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »

I currently dont own any hives but recently I helped the Bee Club collect and extract the honey from the hives the club has. They used Bee Gone and OMG that stuff stunk to high heaven!!  beat a dead horse Made a vow to myself never ever to use that stuff. I'll build a bee escape and wait a day before I ever subject any bees I may have to that.
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Moots
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 10:59:19 AM »

I currently dont own any hives but recently I helped the Bee Club collect and extract the honey from the hives the club has. They used Bee Gone and OMG that stuff stunk to high heaven!!  beat a dead horse Made a vow to myself never ever to use that stuff. I'll build a bee escape and wait a day before I ever subject any bees I may have to that.

SC,
Have you smelled Bee Quick?  I've purchased some and plan on using it...hadn't tried it yet.  It's suppose to be as effective as Bee Gone but with a lot more pleasant aroma.  I've heard it described as smelling like almonds.  Hopefully, I'll be attempting to harvest some honey in a couple of weeks.  I've made a fume board so Plan-A is to try the Bee Quick.  If necessary, I'm thinking Plan-B will be to use a bee brush.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Santa Caras
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 11:34:09 AM »

Hi Moot...no I havent. I just figured if any product that smelled that bad just cant be good for something I'm about to eat. They put those fume boards on and came back 15mins later and those bees were outa there! cant say as I blame em either! I'm so still learning. I bought wood the other day and will be cutting and building boxes this weekend plus pouring cement for a base. Looking forward to it. I'm a few years from retirement and need stuff to do that will keep me busy (without too much work!) and maybe make a couple dollars doing it
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 12:04:51 PM »

>>If you do it when there isn't a dearth, abandonment right at sunset works well.
> I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by the above statement...can you please expound.....Thanks! 

I'm not sure what you don't understand about it.  I guess I'll do each of the terms:

Abandonment:
http://bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm#abandonment

Dearth:
http://bushfarms.com/beesterms.htm#d

Let's try it backwards.  If you do abandonment during a dearth you will set off a robbing frenzy that will frighten and amaze you.  The angry energy that results is beyond your comprehension until you've seen it.  It will not stop until sunset.  So if you do it in the morning it will last all day.  If you do it at noon, it will last all afternoon.  And, it will probably resume the following day.  But if you do it right as the bees are all headed back home, you may avoid it all together and at worst it will end shortly.
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Michael Bush
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Moots
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 12:13:55 PM »

Michael,
I'm with you now....Thanks for the detailed explanation.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 08:52:41 AM »

What I do is simply wait for cold weather to set in and the bees are no longer in the supers, the fall flow has or has not happened, so I can better judge what to leave the bees for winter and I can harvest and measure what they have by the box.  I simply pull boxes until I get to the cluster, estimate how many frames of bees I have and try to leave something between one and two frames of capped honey for every frame of bees.  Two is my target, but I'll settle for one.  Since I'm doing it by the box it never comes out a perfectly even 2:1 or even 1:1 but it will be somewhere in that range.  I can take full boxes of honey and put on the light hives.  I can add dry sugar if they are too light and I have no honey to give them.

By doing this I never have to drive bees out of the supers and very seldom do I have to feed at all.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 12:11:01 PM »

What I do is simply wait for cold weather to set in and the bees are no longer in the supers, the fall flow has or has not happened, so I can better judge what to leave the bees for winter and I can harvest and measure what they have by the box.  I simply pull boxes until I get to the cluster, estimate how many frames of bees I have and try to leave something between one and two frames of capped honey for every frame of bees.  Two is my target, but I'll settle for one.  Since I'm doing it by the box it never comes out a perfectly even 2:1 or even 1:1 but it will be somewhere in that range.  I can take full boxes of honey and put on the light hives.  I can add dry sugar if they are too light and I have no honey to give them.

By doing this I never have to drive bees out of the supers and very seldom do I have to feed at all.


Pretty interesting Michael. Down here in Florida you may never get to pull honey.  grin
Jim
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Moots
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 12:19:12 PM »


Pretty interesting Michael. Down here in Florida you may never get to pull honey.  grin
Jim

Jim,
LOL!  Sitting here in South Louisiana....I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Michael's post.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2013, 12:23:11 PM »

 grin
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2013, 03:28:49 PM »

Yes, I'm sure it won't work in the deep south.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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