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Author Topic: New Beekeepers- Choose Advice Wisely  (Read 1473 times)
sc-bee
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« on: July 16, 2013, 11:46:54 PM »

Copied from another thread. I may be going out on a limb here and cutting it off behind me but the itch was killing me.


I believe this site has personal that find it funny to lead the new beekeeper down the wrong path, but i also believe there are some with good intentions.  Remember...the smoke is for the hive...

You gave me an opening to get on my  soapbox I had been trying to avoid it but it has been killing me.
I have been a member of beemaster since around 07. I have not been active for a while until a few months ago. I consider myself a novice and have about 9 seasons behind me and keep between 10-12 hives. Still plenty I don't know.

I have noticed the tone of the site has changed a bit since a few back. I am not sure you have folks trying to lead new beekeepers down the wrong path,not trying to be rude but what you have are quite a few well read new beekeepers quoting what they have read. If you have not noticed you can click on a beekeepers screen name and go to their profile. From there you can trace their post as far back as you wish.  A few answering all the questions you can trace back where this is their first year of beekeeping. But they continue to have the answer to every question asked.

That is fine, I think everyone should have the right to answer , but there is a lot of bogus floating around lately. I have also noticed how several beekeepers will give a good answer to a question but certain posters thank only one particular beekeeper when he gives his answer. The posters do not acknowledge the others who posted or tried to help. I even remember one poster call someone to task on this lately. Also remember don't go by the number of stars an individual has. All their post could be in a non bee related part of the forum.

Most of the real beekeepers stop in only a few from day to day because they don't have time to answer every question although they may wish to. So I guess that lets you know where I fit, since I have been on here rather frequently lately grin

I would like to end by thanking Beemaster for a very well run site that has a low tolerance for riff-raff. Thanks to all of those behind the scenes.

So much for my  soapbox
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 01:51:02 AM »

old thread answered with this comment.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,41955.msg360033.html#msg360033
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sc-bee
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 07:49:12 AM »

Kathy-I did use the word tone above didn't I. Maybe tone was a poor choice of words.  The tone has not bothered me at all.  Just seems to me more than a fair share of  flying pig lately. Just reminding new folks to look at the whole answer and evaluate and choose what they may glean carefully. Usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Sometimes on the internet it's not a duck, it's a  flying pig
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 08:04:13 AM by sc-bee » Logged

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edward
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 09:01:45 AM »

One of the fun things about beekeeping is there are so many ways to do it.

As long as you know what your doing and why and for what reason the answers may vary quite allot .

That beeing said readers are free to use the information and answers that fit there way to keep there bees.


mvh Edward  tongue
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sc-bee
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 09:15:46 AM »

Agreed- A lot of ways to achieve the same goal. It is great to hear new ideas. With a little post research and screening of past answers a newbee should be able to sift the truth from the  flying pig

Maybe I am the only one that has noticed the  flying pig lately. Maybe it is in my head grin Just too much spare time with all the rain I guess jail Normally I would have let it ride instead of mentioning it.
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »

Quote
Normally I would have let it ride instead of mentioning it.

me too and i was up way to late.  that other post just  ticked me off..i'll go back a re-read it and see if it looks the same in the light of morning  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
tjc1
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »

I hear you, sc-bee - I'm one o' them newbees here. At this point I try to ask more than I answer, except to pass on info that I've gotten/read that has been helpful to me. THere is decidedly a danger in the blind leading the blind - which is why we rely on the experienced beeks here to wade in and straighten us out as necessary - well, maybe I should have said 'help us out' grin

And while I'm here and on the subject, yes - a big thanks to all the patient experienced beeks for all the help, which usually comes in a helpful tone (tho I'm sure that sometimes they must be pulling their hair and grinding their teeth!).
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RHBee
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 11:31:23 AM »

I don't want to misunderstand this post. Is this saying "If you don't have 15 years experience then you are not qualified to offer an opinion or in good faith help someone."? I have found information from several contributors helpful on many occasions. Every one of us have to be willing to listen, sort out and then apply the methods we think are best. If there are people who deliberately mislead others for some sort of twisted pleasure then they have some deeply rooted problems. I never considered this as a possibility, I simply combine the information gathered from this forum along with other sources and apply the solution that I consider best. If I offer information I do so with the best intentions and desires to help others. I know this may sound a little corny but that's how I think.
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Later,
Ray
sc-bee
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »

Not at all Rhb. I think all should participate in good faith.  I am sure there are plenty of beekeepers that are better than I with less experience. How do you measure it---  it has been asked before? Is five years with 200 hives more experience than ten yrs with 5 hives. No way to compare the two I think.

Many different styles, ways and answers to the same question. I have seem to notice a lot of straight out the text book answers lately, which may not necessarily be bad, and others that seem to be just plain out  flying pig

I myself sometimes even try and throw a little dry humor in. Sometimes it may be misunderstood. Sometimes the forum ain't for the thin skinned and sometimes meaning and intention get lost in the non-personal realm of the web. By all means, all should participate in this great forum. However, some may need to qualify their answers at times, especially when offering it up to a newbee that just started keeping bees as themselves.

Most gain a re-pore(sp) with a few on here and know whose word to take to the bank when the time comes, regardless of how harsh it may sound sometimes grin Right, __________  oh heck I left the name out of the blank lau Shoot that ____________ ain't big enough banana devil

By the way beemaster
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 01:11:56 PM by sc-bee » Logged

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Spinner
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 01:07:42 PM »

sc-bee, first off, I appreciate your humility in your op.  And I appreciate the reminders.  Thanks.

Only piece I would add beyond the new beek syndrome that you describe is that there are a wide variety of opinions, experiences, experience level, localities/regions, etc, that all underscore the need to evaluate and think about what I am reading.  None may be wrong, but they might be opposing solutions.

I appreciate everyone's contributions and work hard to keep an open mind to new ideas.  What I learned as a new beek in the '90s certainly isn't current in my re-entry to beekeeping ops today.

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sc-bee
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 01:15:03 PM »

Yes spinner you are absolutely right. That often is one of my downfalls is remembering location can be everything, along with regional timing......... By the way you are hopelessly lost. Zip to your profile and give us a location grin

And a welcome to you...........
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 01:23:13 PM »

I have to tell you that your reply post is what I expected to hear. I simply wanted to make sure I understanded the intent. Thanks. As for the  flying pig I hope that others use this forum with the proper diligence.
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Ray
Moots
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 01:29:05 PM »

sc-bee,
On my first few reads through this post, I thought I wanted to take issue with what you were saying...Then I realized, I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.  huh  You seem to be all over the place.  First suggesting that newer Beeks shouldn't answer questions, then stating that EVERYONE should feel free to answer.  Then taking issue with people quoting advice that they have read...then claiming there's nothing wrong with that.

What exactly is your issue?

I do know this...As a first year Beek, I've been fairly active on the forum and have both asked and answered my share of questions.  I think in general, participation by more members makes this site a better place for everyone.  If I feel like I have an answer that may help someone, what does it matter if I know that answer from personal experience, or because an experienced Beek has shared it with me, or if I've read it out of a book?
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 01:33:26 PM »

Moots, i think this thread doesn't make sense unless you read the one to which it is a response.  we all might have gotten a bit rummy on this one.  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sc-bee
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2013, 01:35:23 PM »

I apologize----- I do not mean to be all over the place or contradict myself. Have I really been that all over the place moot, dang I am slipping Undecided  I am just saying evaluate what you have been told for yourself. I have read a few post that are way out there lately by any ones standards. Just saying..........................

 
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sc-bee
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 01:36:35 PM »

Moots, i think this thread doesn't make sense unless you read the one to which it is a response.  we all might have gotten a bit rummy on this one.  grin

Yea probably soooooooo..........

Speaking of rummy.... maybe all I need is a little shot and I ain't even a drinker wierd thread I think I know what I was trying to say  huh
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10framer
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 01:51:40 PM »

there were several threads that went down the same path around the time this one heating up.  i know exactly what you're saying sc.   
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Moots
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 01:54:05 PM »

I am just saying evaluate what you have been told for yourself. I have read a few post that are way out there lately by any ones standards. Just saying..........................
 

SC,
Understood, without specific examples of the post you are refering to, it's kind of tough to comment on or offer an opinion.  I would hope that my responses don't fall into that category.  I would even further hope that if they did, that someone would call me out on my response specifically and on point.  I'm not sure that making general, non-specific observations really benefits anyone.

No doubt, there's plenty of advice offered on this forum by both new Beeks and very experienced Beeks that gets called into question.  However, I'm not sure I've seen anyoene offering intentionally bad advice...with the possible exception of it being done for humors sake and quite obviously in that context.  
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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sc-bee
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 02:00:14 PM »

Naw moot not you....... and I thought posting specific post would just start a flame throwing. Not into that at all........ not this week anyway evil I think they know who they are. May even be a troll or two. They sometimes appear.
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Moots
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 02:02:24 PM »

Naw moot not you....... and I thought posting specific post would just start a flame throwing. Not into that at all........ not this week anyway evil I think they know who they are. May even be a troll or two. They sometimes appear.

Roger that...thanks!

And you're right, as a general rule, it's best not to feed the trolls!  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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