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Author Topic: Fun-house comb  (Read 969 times)
tjc1
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« on: July 16, 2013, 10:55:27 PM »

This is the end of the box frame of foundationless comb drawn by our school package bees. I had to go to 9-trames so that I could get this one out. The other frames in the deep are pretty regular, with some corresponding ins and outs on facing frames. This is wildly impressive though, I thought!
 Front, back and view from above: (click on them to see them larger).






« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 10:55:04 PM by tjc1 » Logged
Finski
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 11:00:51 PM »

.
Seems very natural. Is it small cell style?
In nature bees make smaller cells?
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 11:13:23 PM »

Since they are not filled with honey, shake the bees off and use a long knife to trim the comb even with the frame and then add another frame in the hive.
Jim
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 11:22:31 PM »

Totally agree with Mr. Sawdust.  Use a bread knife to cut the comb straight.  You have a narrow window of opportunity to get this cleaned up before it devolves into a real mess.  The straightened comb can be sandwiched between good comb, and spacing readjusted so you are not leaving excess space on the sides.
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 11:30:04 PM »


That frame should be melted totally. It makes only harm.

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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 11:36:00 PM »


That frame should be melted totally. It makes only harm.

.

?? Please explain.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 03:18:08 AM »

+1 on melting. grin

Then replace with foundation.   

Those were some interesting photos.  Thanks for posting.  I see wild comb like that quite often when I go foundationless.  Do as SawDustMaker says to fix it.  My beef with foundationless is takes more time managing the hives to end up with good strait comb.  I guess maybe I'm a lazy beek.  At least in my bee yard, hives with wonky comb are more likely to freeze out in the winter than hives with consistent bee space between the frames.  You just don't want a mess like that in your hive going into winter.   
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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 10:18:42 AM »

?? Please explain.

it is useless
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tjc1
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 10:50:35 AM »

Good suggestion to trim it while it's empty on that side. The other frames are straighter, but as I said there is some in and out between facing combs, but they always seem to do it such that they have a consistent bee space, so will that work out OK over winter? Finski, it is natural cell size becuase there was no foundation or foundation starter strip (you might be able to see at the top that I used strips of milk carton for the starter strip).
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D Semple
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 04:27:58 PM »


That's old guy short hand for either:

"I don't want to waste my time, if you don't understand already." or maybe it's
"Jeez, another SC idiot who doesn't use foundation" or maybe
he just stayed up too late last night drinking Vodka and has not had his coffee yet    Wink

Fin's a treasure of good information but has out lived Methuselah and doesn't want to waste too many breaths, don't take it personal.   grin


Finski, is saying to just get rid of that whole bad comb now, by melting it down.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 11:53:15 AM »


That's old guy short hand for either:

"I don't want to waste my time, if you don't understand already." or maybe it's
"Jeez, another SC idiot who doesn't use foundation" or maybe
he just stayed up too late last night drinking Vodka and has not had his coffee yet    Wink

Fin's a treasure of good information but has out lived Methuselah and doesn't want to waste too many breaths, don't take it personal.   grin


Finski, is saying to just get rid of that whole bad comb now, by melting it down.

Thanks D.
Jim
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 03:56:11 PM »


-
-
-


At least I tried...
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D Semple
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 05:36:26 PM »


At least I tried...

I read your post wrong Fin and owe you an apology. I thought when you said "it's useless", you meant trying to explain it was useless, which you have said on a few occasions.

Now, I realize you just meant "the frame" was useless, sorry.

Don
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Finski
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 07:07:10 PM »

.
Yes, sure, it is very necessary. When you mean it.

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AllenF
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 09:06:49 PM »

Cut the mess out of the frame and put it back.   Leave the comb out for the bees to clean up the honey.  The bees will fix combs right if there is the correct spacing with the frames in the box. 
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tjc1
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 10:09:58 PM »

Cut the mess out of the frame and put it back.   Leave the comb out for the bees to clean up the honey.  The bees will fix combs right if there is the correct spacing with the frames in the box. 

Originally I had ten frames in - this was the last frame drawn out, and while the others were in the usual range, they built his one out into the extra end space and attached it to the side of the deep; it took a couple of removals and trims to get them to stop building the bridge comb, but it remained extra deep in that section.
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 11:17:51 PM »

Brood nests should always have 10 frames.  You can go wider spacing in honey supers.  For the hobbyist, the wider spacing (which saves one frame and foundation and labor) really serves no purpose -- you are not trying to achieve marginal efficiency of saving one frame.  The bees store the same amount of honey in either system.

But the fundamental *rule* is 10 frames in the brood.  This is because the cell size (depth) is fixed for brood, while honey can be built with deeper and larger cells.

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Finski
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2013, 12:41:23 AM »

.
The case teached that

- use foundations
- don't leave extra gaps
. don't leave those drone combs into hive


I had this spring 2 hives, where mice had eaten huge holes in winter
I was slow and then I had in may half box of drone brood.
They were so much that it delayed the build up of hive.
It reduced early yield  quite much.
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tjc1
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2013, 04:22:20 PM »

.
The case teached that

- use foundations
- don't leave extra gaps
. don't leave those drone combs into hive


Finski, the deep comb on the frame in the picture was full of nectar (until the hive swarmed two weeks ago, when it got pretty well emptied out of stores), and the shallow comb on the other half was brood, but I don't hink it was drone brood. That being said, this hive does seem to have a load of drones in it! Why does that happen (as you mentioned in your own hive, too)?

JWC - when I removed the tenth frame, I still kept all the frames tightly together in the center, with the extra space at the ends - only so that I could get that big frame out when inspecting,as otherwise it was too tight.
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Finski
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2013, 05:58:19 PM »

.

I have made the same, and sometimes forget to add missing frame. Such happens. It is not end of the world.

A few days ago I took a swarm into the 4 frame nuc box. I put there  only one frame. Yesterday I opened the hive to see, does the queen lay.
Quess what I found there? - Natural combs in zig zag form.
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