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Author Topic: Imagine  (Read 1841 times)
Fox Creek
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« on: July 10, 2013, 02:26:16 PM »

    Imagine a United States where the FBI refuses to participate with congressional hearings, regarding the bombing of an American city. Can you imagine?
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 04:29:35 PM »

No, it would keep me awake at night. I refuse to imagine it. I will stick my head in the sand and vote a democrat ticket.
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hjon71
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 06:33:39 PM »

BAHAHAHA.......congressional hearing.
They amount to a waste of time and money.
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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy
Fox Creek
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 07:28:13 PM »

BAHAHAHA.......congressional hearing.
They amount to a waste of time and money.

   Sad you see it this way. Looks like the FBI thought as you. Waste of time. Ignore the Russian's warnings and don't bother advising local authorities..... innocents died in Boston. Good job!
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 09:04:05 PM »

bad as that is, it doesn't rise to the level of Benghazi, the IRS, HS spying on US citizens,  the newest questions about the deaths of seal team six members in Afghanistan, Fast and Furious,  DOJ misbehavior.  DOC misbehavior......and i'm sure i'm missing a couple....

we are not going to catch them all.  we can't have hearings every time one is missed.  there are other things that can be done at many levels to deal with mistakes...or misses...not all of which will be from mistakes. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 09:47:22 PM »

    All too true Kathyp. However its worth pointing out the total disregard for our system of government. In my opinion we have a lawless administration running roughshod over the constitution. The arrogance is astounding.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 03:42:00 AM »

Fox Creek were you around during the Bush years. huh 

They wrote the book on arrogance. evil

I’ve been too busy working to follow what the FBI does or doesn’t do.  However surely you’ve seen enough “congressional hearings” to know these things are usually a complete waste of time and tax payer MONEY.  Congress is always real good at playing Monday morning quarterback.
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 11:09:54 AM »

    Hmmmmm. looks like I touched BB's one nerve. Point out all the various forms of corruption in the Obama administration and we are told to go back to the Bush thing? Its true we have had our fill of congressional hearings. However, if we relied on Obama's investigations, America would never learn the truth. Because of the administrations deceptions, the hearings have only been able to reveal lies, attempted cover-ups and Obama buddies taking the fifth. Be proud BB.
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hjon71
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 04:50:10 PM »

Both parties are guilty. Yet people stand across from one another saying "Well look what your guy did."   Makes me sick to hear/read it. Then when one is willing to admit a wrong doing by their party they say "I don't support that". But really they do,  because every time it comes to a vote guess where it lands....smh

Want real change? Change your vote for Senator/Representative next time. Vote 3rd party just one cycle. Watch them scramble like shb lol.
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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy
kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 05:25:42 PM »

problem with 3rd party is that you rarely get competent contenders.  you get folks who draw just enough votes from people who what reform, to give the election to the worst possible candidate.  that's how we got clinton and that's probably how we got Obamas 2nd term.

we don't need something new.  we need people to adhere to the old.  i'd rather have someone who is grounded in the constitution than someone with new ideas.  new ideas we have had enough of.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Leather Jim
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 06:07:15 PM »

[quote we don't need something new.  we need people to adhere to the old.  i'd rather have someone who is grounded in the constitution than someone with new ideas.  new ideas we have had enough of.
[/quote]


Hmm, not very many of those up on the hill.
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hjon71
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 06:34:26 PM »

I feel like we've had this discussion before Kathy...

3rd party candidates are not all the same. They come in all shapes and sizes, Conservative Progressive Liberal Libertarian Socialist just to name a few.

The reason they don't get the vote they deserve is the very reason you state unfortunately. People are AFRAID,yes I said it, that if they don't vote for the big party then then person they didn't really want to win will win and the person they really wanted to win never gets a vote of support. Say what you will about wasting a vote or supporting a lost cause. I'm fine with it because I know I've voted for who I really wanted and not my second or third choice.

Just looking at the past few elections I see more centralists/moderates than ever. Keep voting R/D and you will continue to have exactly what we have now. The blame game. That's exactly how they want it. And those votes are signs of support saying Please Give Me More!
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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy
kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 07:58:11 PM »

i don't have a problem with 3rd party candidates in theory.  in congress, it's probably a really doable thing.  can't think of the last prez candidate that ran 3rd that wasn't either a one subject person, or a nut.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 08:33:55 PM »

    Third party? I believe it will come. People will understand why a third party is needed. When? This is the question. Do you have any idea what has been taking place in the house? True conservatives are in a truly bloody political battle with the GOP. Would you believe the speaker was set to rubber stamp the senate immigration bill? Do the people question why Rubio and Ryan are arm and arm with guys like Schumer?  The divide between republicans and conservatives will grow. Its growing as we speak. When the divide between the Leftist and true conservatives becomes clear, it will be time for the third party. The people will determine if the new party will grow and become a power.   
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 09:00:57 PM »

in most years we return 90% of the congress to office.  if they don't do what we want, who can we blame but us?  they don't need to listen.  we vote them back in anyway because "the others are bad, but my guy is pretty good"........

we don't need another party so that we end up with a system like that in  most European countries.  nothing gets done because no one has enough majority to get anything done.   granted, not getting anything done might be a big plus right about now....but better we toss out the majority of those in office and replace them.

why the heck do we have people like McCain and Graham in office?  who is to blame but those who put them back in?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2013, 09:32:39 PM »

    "Why are they put back in?" 

    How long will the GOP get away with acting as though they are conservative? How many times do we allow McCain to lie to us? How long will we continue to follow the GOP, while the GOP leads us to ruin?  At some point the true conservatives will want a home of their own. A home where the conservative voice will be heard loud and clear. A home where conservatives  can control their own destiny, without interference from the elitist. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2013, 09:44:19 PM »

well, i'd say that since we keep putting people like McCain back in, there must not be many true conservatives.  either that, or there are very many people who are not paying attention.  either way, with a 3rd party of "conservatives" (and i'm not sure you can get that) you guarantee liberal wins.

just as an example:  if you were to run someone like ron paul as your true conservative, conservatives like me would not vote for him.  that leaves me with the moderate or not voting. 
why not reform what we have, understanding that there will be some variations in conservative views.  if i have a constitutional conservative to vote for, some of the things on the edges i can live with....but not a nut case with no understanding of the world....so don't go there  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2013, 10:47:24 PM »

    Kathyp. You will not vote for a Ron Paul. Well neither will I. I also will not support another McCain or Romney. The republican establishment will not run a conservative candidate. At some point we will need a place to go. Instead of slowly going down the drain, why not strike out on our own. It would be rough at first, however out of republican shackles we could advance our agenda of a constitutional government.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 11:01:36 PM by Fox Creek » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2013, 10:07:39 AM »

it's a great idea, but i don't think you'd find enough real conservatives to get a candidate into the WH.  congress, yes...depending on where you live.
if you need an example, look at what beemaster is going through to get a weapon in NJ...and (sorry to pick on you, john) he accepts this as normal.  in a country as diverse, and only center right for most of it, a real conservative is going to be hard to get though. 

we need to recognize the right person for the right time when they are presented to us.  as an example, While McCain was not the right person for anything, Romney was a far better pick for the economy that needed rational government fixes.  for all the things he is, or is not, he is a person who understands money in and money out.  none of the other things matter much if we end up digging roots out of the ground with twigs.

i would vote for Perry.  i have always liked him.  he's not always as conservative as i am, but he knows how to govern and run big stuff.  he'll be at the top of my list if he runs again.  i really like rand paul, but i wonder if he can govern?  we already have an example of what happens when you put inexperienced people in office. 


i have always said, and will again, we'll have the perfect candidate when god runs for president.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2013, 10:51:28 AM »

>They amount to a waste of time and money.

Congressional hearings are always just a big political posturing circus... but still if the FBI doesn't answer to Congress who does it answer to?
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