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Author Topic: when to requeen?  (Read 1817 times)
Just5398
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« on: June 28, 2013, 02:32:47 PM »

A little background.  Installed a nuc May 12 this year.  Slow start due to chilly rainy weather in NJ.  weather is now more seasonably warm (80+).  Was inspecting weekly in the beginning.
Went 2 weeks this time expecting great progress.  They still occupy the 4 original frames.  Only one frame has spotty brood and everything on it is capped drone cells.  The other 3 frames have honey, pollen, nectar and bee bread.  Feeling things are not going well AT ALL. ( I've had my doubts all along.).   When is too late to requeen?  I've seen a couple of wonky supercedure cells but the original queen still reigns supreme.  Afraid I'm going to be behind the 8 ball soon.

HELP PLEASE!
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Sally
Moots
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 02:55:19 PM »

...but the original queen still reigns supreme....


Are you sure you still have a queen and not a laying worker?

Also, I assume this is your only hive?
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Just5398
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 03:13:51 PM »

the original queen is marked so she is still there and how would i know if I have a laying worker (other than 2 eggs per cell) and not a drone laying queen?  I see larvae at different stages but every cell that is capped is a drone.

Yes, this is my only hive.  
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:30:54 PM by Just5398 » Logged

Sally
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 05:20:16 PM »

the original queen is marked so she is still there and how would i know if I have a laying worker (other than 2 eggs per cell) and not a drone laying queen?  I see larvae at different stages but every cell that is capped is a drone.

Yes, this is my only hive.  

Sally,
I'm still young in the Beek game so hopefully others will hop in. Sounds like you have a bad queen, Id requeen ASAP and pinch the existing queen.  May want to have a conversation with whoever you purchased the NUC from.  I was just asking about a laying worker because if that was the case it can complicate the requesting process.

Good luck.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
Just5398
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 05:56:48 PM »

I'm not thrilled with who I got my nuc from because they weren't  all that helpful when I questioned this queen weeks ago.   I'd have to contact another local beek  and hope is not to late in the season 1. To requeen  2. To build up enough to survive the winter. 
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Sally
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 06:09:34 PM »

I'm not thrilled with who I got my nuc from because they weren't  all that helpful when I questioned this queen weeks ago.   I'd have to contact another local beek  and hope is not to late in the season 1. To requeen  2. To build up enough to survive the winter. 

Sally,
I know your "season" in NJ is MUCH Different than what we have in Louisiana.  That being said, it's not even July yet, I'd have to think if you requeened ASAP they'd have a decent chance.  Considering it's your only hive, I don't see where you really have any other options.

I know this advice comes late, but this is really why a "one hive" start up approach has a lot of disadvantages.

Your only other option is to try to get another hive, Nuc, or swarm and do a combine or shake out.  Or donate them to a local Beek to either combine or shake them out.  One thing is pretty obvious...they have no chance on the path they are currently on. 

Personally, I'd requeen...think of it as a $20 lottery ticket.  Smiley

Good luck!
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
zzzzzzzzpr
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 06:33:58 PM »

I live in Oklahoma and had a queenless hive. I just started requeening the hive. I have no local beek here that sell queens til July.
he requeens before the winter on all his hives. why? couldn't tell you. I think if you requeen now you may save your hive now.
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Just5398
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 06:50:19 PM »

I will contact another to requeen this hive.  Fingers crossed this works in time.  Thank you for your advice.
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Sally
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 07:02:39 PM »

There's a place in New York that sells queens. It might be worth the drive to grab one if they're still available...or have one mailed. According to their website, they're locally raised norther queens, so should do great in NJ.

 White Oak Apiary
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Just5398
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »

Thank you for the link.  I have a couple locals so i'm going to reach out to them tonight and see what I find.  At least I know I have  a chance!
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Sally
dfizer
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 10:19:38 PM »

To requeen - make sure you leave the hive queenless for 24-48 hours before introducing the new queen.  I usually put the new queen in the hive in the afternoon following a day of being completely queenless.  I tape the candy end closed so that they cannon release her then I make sure the new queen is left in the hive in her cage for at least 3 full days.  Then I remove the tape and hope the workers release her.  I check to make sure they indeed released her after 3 more days.  If they haven't I poke a very small hole in the candy plug with a very small drill bit just using my fingers to drill the hole.  I wait another 3 days and if she is still not out on her own I remove the rest of the candy and release her myself.  I leave the hive alone for 10 days after that then I check for brood/eggs/larvae.  This method has not failed me yet. 

David

btw - our climates are not that much different and I believe you can have a thriving hive that has plenty of strength to survive your winter if you go ahead and requeen now. 
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Just5398
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 05:38:22 PM »

Another question...so if the queen is not producing well why wouldn't they supercede  her? 
Do you all agree that at 6 weeks from a nuc I should have more than one spotty  frame of brood? 
I don't want to give up and am thinking I should have heeded the warning of starting with just one hive.  Hind sight is always 20/20.
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Sally
charlie68
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 05:58:56 PM »

your nuk is so small you don't have enough bees for the queen to lay  she will only lay as many eggs as the bees can keep warm. bees only live about 6 weeks most of the bees you got with the nuk are dead. the slow start she had put her behind i don't think a new queen will help you said there was one frame of brood thats really not enough you need more bees
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Just5398
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 06:25:33 PM »

So what do I do, see if I can purchase a brood frame from someone?  Would that even help since you say I don't have enough bees to keep the brood warm?
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Sally
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 08:46:54 PM »

It's been 2 months since I started my hives with a couple nucs. About a month and a half later I had frames with spotty brood. The following week it was a solid pattern. I'm now having a nice population boom.
 It's sounds to me as if you're nuc may have been thrown together and not raised as a nuc. Give them another week or so and perhaps the pattern will become more solid as that spotty brood emerges and she has more workers.
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charlie68
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 09:01:39 PM »

  you could wait a week and see if the brood you have hatch out  then she will lay more  the bees that hatch out will be house bees for about 15 days  they will cover any new eggs  those will hatch in about21 days just about the time the house bees start going out  then it starts all over again each time she should lay more  in time your hive will build up
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Just5398
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2013, 09:27:00 PM »

A big concern is that the capped brood appears to be all drones.
I will go in tomorrow and take video and pix.   I'm not sure how to estimate the number of bees that are in the hive but my guess would be 2000. Big guess.   But with pix you guys will see exactly what I'm talking about about brood pattern and capped drone.
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Sally
10framer
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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2013, 11:54:08 AM »

I live in Oklahoma and had a queenless hive. I just started requeening the hive. I have no local beek here that sell queens til July.
he requeens before the winter on all his hives. why? couldn't tell you. I think if you requeen now you may save your hive now.

he's re-queening in july so that he has a queen able to build up for next year's flow quickly most likely.  it also leaves time for the bees to supersede any faulty queens before winter most likely.  we used to re-queen around the first of august if i remember correctly. 
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Wolfer
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2013, 01:09:43 PM »

I suspect you have a drone laying queen. The bees can't supersede her because they don't have any female eggs. She will lay in worker cells but the drone police will take them out.
It's possible that even with a new queen you won't have enough nurse bee to take care of very many and may take a long time to build up. Probably more time than you have.

If you could find a frame of worker capped brood and a new queen would be your best chance.
Would like to see the pictures of your brood.
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Just5398
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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2013, 03:13:27 PM »

these are the pictures from today.  brood frame is just frame 1.  I didn't spot the queen today which is very unusual but trying to get pictures and trying not to drop anything was difficult enough.  i only see drone cells.  =(

This is an overview of the frames



frame 1 side 1


frame 1 side 2


frame 2 side 1


frame 2 side 2


frame 3 side 1


frame 3 side 2



frame 5 side 1


frame 5 side 2
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Sally
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