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Author Topic: air nailer for frame assembly  (Read 3641 times)
Sour Kraut
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« on: June 27, 2013, 11:03:09 AM »

OK, I'm open to suggestions

What do YOU use and any complaints or praise ?

Thanks to all in advance

the S K


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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 11:11:11 AM »

I use a finish nailer with 1 1/4 inch long #18 gauge nails. I don't know ho manufactures it, I have had it for about 20 years now.
Jim
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danno
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 12:33:56 PM »

I use 1/4 crown staples 1 inch long and glue.  In my opinion glue titebond II is the most important.  I apply glue with a acid brush to the tops and bottoms of the end bars.  I lay a top bar upside down on the bench and push on the two glued end bars.  With a small square I square one of the end and shoot a staple angled through the end bar, into the top bar.  Repete with the other side.  I then install my plastic foundation and a bottom bar and shoot a staple through both ends of the bottom, into the end bars.  Frame done.  When the glue dries they NEVER break at a joint
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danno
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 12:35:52 PM »

I should add the my Menards stapler cost under 30.00 five years and a couple of 1000 frames ago.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 01:01:02 PM »

I use the 1" long 1/4" crown staples too.  But a brad nailer would work with 1" or longer brads.  The other nice thing about the crown stapler is it works ok for boxes with 1 1/2" or longer staples.  Mine won't take longer than 1 1/2" but that is sufficient.  Any shorter is not sufficient...

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danno
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 03:56:47 PM »

another thing the staples have over the brad nailer is each one is like shooting 2 brads.  My cheap stapler can only handle 1inch long which is just right for frames.   I can see the benefit having one that would shoot 1 1/2.   That would make boxes, covers and about everything else go quicker.  Again though use a good glue.  the nails or staples only hold the pc's together long enough for the glue to dry.    One of the things that  bother me the most in bee keeping is prying a frame out of a active colony and have it come apart.  Its a mess. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 04:17:13 PM »

and it's therapeutic!!   evil

do get one that does nails and staples and will take the longer.  my first was not so good, but the second one i have had long time and it's great.  i think it was from Harbor Freight and not to expensive.
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 09:52:18 PM »

I use the Harbor Freight brad nailer/crown stapler. It will shoot up to 1 1/2 staples but it doesn't have the power to shoot them if the wood is on the hard side. So I use my 15 gauge finish nailer on boxes.
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RHBee
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 08:57:59 PM »

I use the Bostic crown stapler/brad nailer combination tool. The drawback to this toolis that it uses bostic 7/32" instead of normal 1/4".  It came with my finishing nailer. For boxes I use a Griptite 7/16" stapler and 1 1/2" staples. TiteBond3 just cause.
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Later,
Ray
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 09:29:47 PM »

Keep in mind, eventually the nails will rust out, they are only 18 gauge. The glue will last longer than the wood unless the frames are left submerged in water for a couple days. Tight bond glue is designed to work on flat plained wood not end grain. It will work well on cuts up to 45 degrees. Putting glue in the bottom of the cut on the sides pieces does little good. It needs to be on the sides, flat wood to flat wood. I have done the tests, there is a big difference.
Jim
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Jim 134
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 10:07:56 AM »

sawdstmakr.........

What tests are you talking about  Huh




                      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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danno
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 07:01:39 PM »

sawdstmakr.........

What tests are you talking about  Huh




                      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
dito
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 12:02:27 AM »

sawdstmakr.........

What tests are you talking about  Huh




                      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

Take one frame and using just glue, put the glue in the button of the notch's, end grain to flat cut wood and then take one frame and put the glue on just on the sides where you have flat cut wood to flat cut wood. Let them both dry for 24 hours. Then take the first one and stress it by pushing on the top bar on one end and push the bottom bar on the other end. The first one will fail quickly if you only have glue on the end grain. Put the same stress on the other frame and you will find it will not fail. Add a little more and it still will not fail. I usually stop there so that I do not destroy a perfectly good frame because the wood will probable break before the glue joint does. You can then take the other frame and re glue it like the other one and it will be just fine.

I did this demonstration for our bee club and let the students see for them selves the difference.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 10:36:01 PM »

sawdstmakr .....
  
   I still do not know what you're talking about when I and glue a joint I put glue a all sides of the joint (I use a small acid brush for this) and neither clamp it or nail it and sometimes I will screw the joint together.

acid brush is used by plumbers before soldering copper pipes may cost you a buck or two
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/218b6pF4koL._AA160_.jpg



                       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2013, 01:01:53 AM »

sawdstmakr .....
  
   I still do not know what you're talking about when I and glue a joint I put glue a all sides of the joint (I use a small acid brush for this) and neither clamp it or nail it and sometimes I will screw the joint together.

acid brush is used by plumbers before soldering copper pipes may cost you a buck or two
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/218b6pF4koL._AA160_.jpg

                       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

Jim,
It has been mentioned to place glue in the bottom of the notch of the frames and there are videos on utube that show the same. The bottom of the notch on a frame is end grain. Any type of glue that is basically a white glue does not have any strength when the glue is placed on the end grain. White glue (titebond) is designed for gluing flat grain to flat grain.
I am trying to show that you need to make sure you are not trying to glue frames together using the end grain as your main connecting point.
Jim
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danno
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2013, 07:14:36 AM »

As I stated earlier I use titebond II and a acid brush.   I grab a bundle of 10 end bars and with the brush, I apply to the bottoms and sides of all the groves both top and bottom.   I like to see enough glue that when I push the end down on a top the some pushes out the sides.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2013, 07:39:02 AM »

Are you also telling the you do not double glue end grain some may call it priming the joint  Huh
Are you tell me you do not put glue on all sides of the joints Huh  
If not why not Huh
Or are you like the State Farm® commercial they cannot put anything on the Internet that is not true Huh


http://youtu.be/rmx4twCK3_I

 lau lau lau lau



                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Joe D
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2013, 11:07:56 AM »

I use a 1/4 in 18 gauge stapler, it can use up to 1 1/2 " staples.  I use it for frames and supers, with a little glue.  I got mine from CPO outlet near Atlanta.  They have reconditioned and new, mine was new but in an open box.  Every thing was there, it is an Hitachi, can't remember exactly but was around $65.  Good luck with what ever you choose.




Joe
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2013, 11:21:08 PM »

Are you also telling the you do not double glue end grain some may call it priming the joint  Huh
Are you tell me you do not put glue on all sides of the joints Huh  
If not why not Huh


                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

Jim,
What I am saying is that if you depend on the end grain joint to provide the strength, in the long run it will fail. I glue the side tabs and the sides of the top and bottom boards. This glues flat grain to flat grain and the wood will fail before the glue joint.

Try doing the test and you will see what I mean.
Jim
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capt44
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2013, 09:16:50 PM »

When putting boxes together I use a Campbell Hausfield air nailer I bought online from CPO outlets.
I use 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 inch brad nails and Tite Bond II glue.
I put the boxes together in a jig I built so they'll be square.
I've built around 450 boxes this season so far and have had no complaints.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
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