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Author Topic: Moving colony to new hive system?  (Read 815 times)
Spear
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« on: June 23, 2013, 03:17:47 PM »

I have just been given a colony and need to move them into a new hive but I want to use a different hive system to the one they are currently in - medium hive body to deep hive body. I am worried that I can't just move the frames over the new hive as they wont fit, so what can I do so I don't loose any brood or anything in the move? (oh forgot to mention that it is a fairly new colony from a 5 frame nuc moved into a 10 frame medium and want to use a 12 frame deep with shallow supers)
Thanx
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sc-bee
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 03:29:09 PM »

Stay with all mediums--- everything fits everywhere. I didn't go that route and wished I had.
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 03:36:45 PM »

Why do you want to do 12 frames?  Set up a 10 frame box and just place the medium on top. After they move down you can add another deep. I do agree with sc-bee. mediums all the way.  Smiley d2
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Spear
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 03:44:51 PM »

It was suggested to me that I go with the 12 frame deep and shallow supers as it is easier for to handle than 10 frame mediums. (I don't have a lot of strength in my 'spigetti' arms and my son is too small to lift much weight either.)
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don2
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 03:59:19 PM »

Go to 8 frame medium, or do the single frame harvest method.  Smiley d2
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 09:07:21 PM »

I do all 8 frame mediums. Went that route because I'm not getting any younger. Right now I could handle 10 frame but 10 years down the road maybe not.

A ten frame deep full of honey weighs 90 pounds. A ten frame medium weighs 60 pounds. An eight frame medium weighs 48 pounds. Can't imagine a 12 frame full of honey.

You decide how much you want to lift.

David
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BlueBee
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 11:14:51 PM »

Wise move spear.  applause

I run numerous configurations in my bee yard:  all mediums, deeps with mediums, and jumbos with shallows.  All mediums is just a pain in the butt and donít build up as fast as the bigger combs in my bee yard.  I only fool with mediums to sell to other beeks because they think all mediums is the catís meow. 

No Georgia Boy, you never lift 12 frame deeps, or jumbos.  You leave them were they are and just pull the honey supers. 

Spear, to answer your question (wouldnít that be nice), moving from all mediums to a deep brood box is MUCH easier than going the other direction (deeps to mediums).  You can simply put the medium frames in the deep box and the bees will build foundationless on the bottom of the medium frames to make them into deeps.  Thereís just two potential problems with this approach, the bees probably wonít build all existing 10 frames down exactly strait.  The other problem is a lack of physical support for the extended comb. 

The first problem can be addressed by putting a few normal sized deep frames between some of the mediums to give the bees a wall to work against when combing down the mediums.  Also inspect and fix comb more frequently until they have the mediums converted to deeps.  As for the lack of physical support on the extended combs, youíre really not going to be extracting them, so the lack of support isnít a big issue.  Just be careful holding the frames when the comb is fresh.  Good luck.
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Spear
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 02:27:41 PM »

Thanx for all the feed back. Will post what I do when I finally move my bees to their new home.
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Joe D
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 02:51:54 PM »

Spear, get a good dollie, even a shallow full of honey gets heavy.  If you know that the super is not completely full of capped Honey, you can take an empty super or one with some more frames.  As you take a capped frame out of the hive replace it with an empty frame.  Then you won't have to do much lifting.  Good luck to you and your bees




Joe
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sc-bee
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52:37 PM »

Don,t know about a cat meowing but all mediums fit anyway you deal them, top, bottom, left or right  grin. Ain't gotta worry about do I need deeps, mediums or shallow today, oh yeah I need mediums  Wink bluebee has run them all, I can not say that.

However if you go to 8 frame mediums the stack becomes higher and the cost is more due to suppliers seem to think they should be the same price as deeps. Almost twice the cost for the same amount of space, but I have not priced lately. If you going to pull individual frames or don't mind the weight, go with ten frame mediums. As far as building up, I have no idea. Ask the many folks on here who love them and the convenience.

Again, I wish all my equipment was mediums.

Here are some links borrowed from Bush's website:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 05:25:40 PM by sc-bee » Logged

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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 05:24:37 PM »

I agree with deep for brood and medium supers for extracting. The bees do much better in 10 frame deeps. It's been proven over and over since Langstroth. Anybody that thinks a 10 frame deep weighs over 10 lbs. should never buy a weight lifting set. They aren't smart enough to know it comes apart and will kill themselves trying to get it home.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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sc-bee
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 05:29:53 PM »

Anybody that thinks a 10 frame deep weighs over 10 lbs. should never buy a weight lifting set. They aren't smart enough to know it comes apart and will kill themselves trying to get it home.

I don't want to shuffle things around anymore than I do now.Tote two here tote two there. But it is an option when the ten together become a weight issue. Simple math right id  Wink

I actually think the jumbo deeps must bee the norm in his area and his mind is probably made up. Long story short spear is the only one who has to be happy with his decision  grin
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BlueBee
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 06:13:40 PM »

You know itís kind of rare when my friend iddee and I agree on something.  applause
Meow, meow.  cheer

Really I couldnít care less what configuration people use; I donít have a bee agenda to push.  Like I said, I run all different configurations; about 30 hives.   Of the combinations I run, I prefer the jumbo/shallow design.  Jumbos are not the norm up here in Michigan, but then again Iím not your normal beek.  Wink
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iddee
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 08:09:32 PM »

 cheer   Come on by sometime, bluebee, and we'll make this real.    cheer
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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sc-bee
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 09:13:30 PM »

You know itís kind of rare when my friend iddee and I agree on something.  applause
Meow, meow.  cheer

Really I couldnít care less what configuration people use; I donít have a bee agenda to push.  Like I said, I run all different configurations; about 30 hives.   Of the combinations I run, I prefer the jumbo/shallow design.  Jumbos are not the norm up here in Michigan, but then again Iím not your normal beek.  Wink


Agreeing with id not sure it is necessarily a good thing grin

A bee agenda to push--- not at all. I have a few medium box's that ended up here somehow

Jumbo's the Norm? I meant in Germany not Michigan. But of course to me Michigan might as well be just as far away as Germany  cheer 

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John 3:16
BlueBee
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 12:24:33 AM »

LOL, Sometimes it seems like Germany up here. 

Frankenmuth, MI is our little Germany.  http://www.frankenmuth.org/festivals

Maybe the beeks should meet up here for Octoberfest after putting the bees to bed for the winter.  cool

After a few beers we probably won't have anything to argue about  grin
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Spear
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 03:20:23 PM »

Thanks for the advice. But just to help clear things up a bit, because it is hard to get a picture of someone you never met, I'll introuduce myself again.
I am a single mother with 2 boys (11yrs and 2 yrs) I was born & grew up in South Africa. We moved to Germany October 2012 & have decided to start beekeeping as a hobby & maybe a small 2nd income. I have always been fasinated by bees & just can't get used to not having them buzzing around everywhere in the summer - I was always fishing them out the pool in S.A. Here in Germany I hardly ever see any bees, even at the beekeeper club where they have atleast 10 hives set up, the bees are only to be seen when you stand very close to hives & watch them coming & going all minding their own business. Anyway I have so far learned alot from this forum & hope to learn much more! Thanx
P.S: The bee on my avatar is a wild african honey bee on an almond blossom (I took the pic myself).
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 05:14:09 PM »

Just another chiming in, but I agree with BlueBee, and also run deeps and mediums, and jumbo's and mediums, but the weight doesn't bother me. if it did, I'd run deeps/jumbo's for the brood boxes and shallow supers.  Having all mediums does surely make things just simpler and interchangeable, but they just do better, imo in deeps and jumbo's for brood.

Here is an interesting article AND POINT OF VIEW FROM 2003, their 'evils' of a double deep to me would suggest a triple medium to be even worse.:
http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/walt-wright/evils-of-the-double-deep/
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 08:56:32 AM »

> to me would suggest a triple medium to be even worse.

Oddly enough, in life, you often get the same result from opposite tactics.  Queens hesitate to move out of a single deep (9 5/8").  They almost never move out of a Dadant deep (11 5/8) but they never hesitate to move out of a medium (6 5/8") and expand the brood nest.  I think the deep is the worst depth for a brood box as it's not big enough, but it's just big enough to keep the queen from easily moving from box to box.  I think they winter better in mediums because of the cluster spanning more than one box and the gap between boxes allowing movement between frames.  With deeps they sometimes get stuck on the other side of a frame.  But the nicest thing about eight frame mediums is that I can do most of my management by the box instead of the frame.  Since the brood is almost always in multiple boxes, I can split by the box when I have a hive strong enough to fill four boxes.  Lifting was my main reason for going to eight frame mediums.  But the advantages were much more than that.

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Michael Bush
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 10:45:55 PM »

I cannot say, I have actually never went with all mediums, but I know two deeps and jumbo's work great. and my queens have had absolutely no problem moving between them. I think the article is really talking more as far as a meat cluster is concerned rather than normal activity though, so it may not be contradictory at all. and it may also be different with area also I suppose, since weather conditions would be different. I am not really seeing why they would have a issue with crossing with a deep, but not with a medium, as the gap is the same, except she really may not have to 'so much' with having more space with a deep frame? What's your theories/incite have any?
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