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Author Topic: question about 5 frame nuc progress  (Read 1733 times)
Robo
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 07:53:09 AM »

Brood pattern looks nice,  but the old frames are sickening.    Beekeepers that sell nucs with frames like these are a disgrace.   You need to work those frames out as soon as possible and then your hivre will take off.
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robk23678
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2013, 09:08:46 AM »

Those 5 frames are the original ones that the nuc came with. Took them out of the nuc and put them in the deep exactly how they were. I had planned on replacing them, but was not sure how, or the best time to do it. Is that something that can be done now or do i have to wait until early spring?
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2013, 09:19:32 AM »

Once the other frames start to be drawn and have brood in them,  slowly move those nasty frames to the outside of the box and eventually out of the hive completely.   Or at some point when the hive builds up, you could move them into another hive body away from the queen and once the brood hatches you can remove them. 

Do yourself a favor and in the future never buy nucs from anyone who wants to sell you their old contaminated frames.  Your nice new disease free equipment has been compromised.
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robk23678
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 09:45:08 AM »

The nuc was in a plastic coated cardboard box, looked a lot like the wooden ones I've seen pictures of. Not a bad idea as far as money is concerned. My thoughts the day we were moving them from the nuc to the hive, those frames are at least 2 years old. This is all new to us. Chickens and rabbits and such I have plenty of experience in.

The queen in the nuc is a new queen this year, so hopefully she will continue to do good.

I haven't seen any varroa as of yet, and they are VSH, so hopefully it doesn't become a problem. I do have plenty of powdered sugar on hand though.

I have to say I was surprised at how gentle the girls are. I have yet to be stung. Yesterday, when we went out to remove the box and change the cover, it was so uncomfortable I went out in shorts and a t-shirt not even thinking about it. I mow right up to the hive, without them being bothered (we have a cordless electric mower I use around the hive just because, and they weren't bothered by the gas mower being near the hive either). They do seem to like to dive bomb the wife though...
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 10:15:34 AM »

The brood pattern in the pix are great.  Note that the center "donut" hole means the first cohort has hatched (just a couple of hundred new bees).  The rule of thumb is a frame of capped brood will cover 3 frames of drawn comb as hatched bees -- I think in practice the ratio is a bit less for me.  You will fill your hive soon, based on the brood that is coming on quickly.

To inspect a thrifty hive like yours, look for bees that are covering the top bars-- Note that your undrawn frames have no cover.  You don't need to lift and disturb the brood to assess the supering need.

Your hive is in a delicate state and you want to minimize the massive disturbance by humans.  The queen has filled the available drawn comb with now capped brood.  You want her to move out to the side and force new laying into your new frames.  When you totally disassemble the hive, the queen retreats to the core brood area for safety.  I believe that it takes a couple of days for the queen to venture out to edges of the brood again.  This sets the hive way back at a critical time -- as the queen restricts her laying to the open donut hole in the center of hatching frames.

It will be supering ready in about 2 weeks based on the brood frames.  My guess is the queen will move up from the core area, laying brood above the hive center in the center frames of the new box.  This will likely give you the opportunity to move the dirty comb outward in the temporarily unutilized bottom box.
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2013, 10:18:06 AM »

The nuc was in a plastic coated cardboard box, looked a lot like the wooden ones I've seen pictures of. Not a bad idea as far as money is concerned. My thoughts the day we were moving them from the nuc to the hive, those frames are at least 2 years old. This is all new to us.
The box they came in is not that important,  the condition of the frames and bees is.  You are being very optimistic with 2 years.

Quote
The queen in the nuc is a new queen this year, so hopefully she will continue to do good.

So lets dig a little deeper, I'm wondering what you were sold as a nuc,  based on the condition of the frames they sold you, I wouldn't be surprised with what they consider to be a "nuc".   Was there brood in all stages when you received it?  It could very well be they just pulled 5 frames from a hive and added a mated queen.  In that case,  I would not consider it a nuc,   the workers are not offspring of the queen nor do they have they established the synergy of a cohesive colony.   Basically equivalent to package bees with some comb and brood. A true nuc would look like your hive right now,  brood in all stages (eggs to hatchng)   If the brood was not from her, there is a good chance you had a laps in brood rearing between the old brood and the new brood and suffered a set back similar to what one see with package bees (albeit not a bad since you did have some brood hatching).  With the amount of brood you are showing now, the hive should take off shortly,  once the new queens brood starts to hatch (~3 weeks).

Quote
and they are VSH,

so you hope.


Chances are since it is a new queen this year,  the break in brood is a good varroa deterrent and the first year varroa will not be an issue.   Don't assume just because it is not a problem the first year that they are resistant or your treatment method is successful.   A lot of new beekeepers fall into that trap.   First year is rarely an issue do to forced brood breaks.

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robk23678
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2013, 10:46:10 AM »

and they are VSH,

so you hope.


Chances are since it is a new queen this year,  the break in brood is a good varroa deterrent and the first year varroa will not be an issue.   Don't assume just because it is not a problem the first year that they are resistant or your treatment method is successful.   A lot of new beekeepers fall into that trap.   First year is rarely an issue do to forced brood breaks.



I hope I was told correctly, but I am prepared to treat as necessary. One of the other things I would have liked would have been for the queen to be marked. I haven't had much trouble finding her yet, but as the numbers grow... I'm hesitant to try and get the supplies and mark her myself. I know now if I order to get the queen marked.


To rotate those old frames out, would it be wise for me to pull one frame at a time, replace it with a new frame, put an excluder on, then place another box with the old frame in it on top of the excluder? Obviously, making sure the queen is below the excluder. If so, when would be a good time to start this?
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2013, 11:11:07 AM »

Do Not over-manipulate.  The core need at present is to let the hive build up. You need to respect the integrity and cohesion of the colony. The potential deleterious effect of old comb is far outweighed by the set back that will result from harassing the colony every time a whim strikes the human owner of the hive.  In my hives, Nosema is not an issue in the summer with sun and free flight, but can affect winter hives.

Novice keeps tend to read about all sorts of exotic manipulation and fail to realize these are skills slowly acquired. The bees are tiny insects and easily damaged.  Don't mark the queen for instance-- the likelihood of damaging her is high, and you have no cushion to fall back on.

I keep reading posts where the keeps have gone through every frame looking for the queen.  Why?  You see brood and eggs, those didn't get there by magic.  It's not like an Easter Egg hunt where you get a prize for finding the golden egg. I cringe when folks hold up frames off the hive, to take pix of their queen.  She can easily drop off, or get a leg broken putting the frame back into the hive. Just let the colony organize and build up.-- when you have a double deep hive rolling -- then you can start pulling frames.  When you have two hives set up, then you can start doing risky things to your queen.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2013, 12:07:31 PM »

I agree with what Mr Finski has said in this thread.  We’ve had a couple of days in the mid 80s here too, but there is rarely a need for a ventilated inner cover in our northerly locations.  You don't have nearly enough bees to add a 2nd box yet.  Don’t feed, there is plenty of nectar around now for the bees.  Your frames are definitely aged.  Keep in mind that it takes 21 days for new bees to be created, so you won’t see a big jump in numbers overnight.  With your clearly older frames, I might be a little worried about a bad varroa infestation if they don’t start building up for you.  The one photo you’ve got posted so far, doesn’t look too bad to me, sans the bronze age frames. Smiley

Blue copy his link in post 15 and paste in address bar to see all pictures.

Finski- I have no experience with nosema in my warm climate at least I don't think. Could you count the pictures from left to right and lead me to one with visible poop. I would like to learn the signs. I have heard of poop on the outside of hive but not on inside frames.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 02:29:38 PM by sc-bee » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2013, 04:16:36 PM »

[ Could you count the pictures from left to right and lead me to one with visible poop. I would like to learn the signs.

Most of old old frames have feces on the top bar. They are seen clearly in a light colored  frame, in front or others.
It seems too that some have and wax hve been melted over the poo.

Feces or poo are red brown colored blots, and they are varying forms. Some are under melted wax.
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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2013, 06:30:05 PM »

[ Could you count the pictures from left to right and lead me to one with visible poop. I would like to learn the signs.

Most of old old frames have feces on the top bar. They are seen clearly in a light colored  frame, in front or others.
It seems too that some have and wax hve been melted over the poo.

Feces or poo are red brown colored blots, and they are varying forms. Some are under melted wax.

  huh finski thats not poo-- cheesy--it is propolis -varies in color from a dark green too a reddish hue---
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sc-bee
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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2013, 08:12:13 PM »

[ Could you count the pictures from left to right and lead me to one with visible poop. I would like to learn the signs.

Most of old old frames have feces on the top bar. They are seen clearly in a light colored  frame, in front or others.
It seems too that some have and wax hve been melted over the poo.

Feces or poo are red brown colored blots, and they are varying forms. Some are under melted wax.
ropolis -varies in color from a dark green too a reddish hue---

 grin
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2013, 12:47:07 AM »


  huh finski thats not poo-- cheesy--it is propolis -varies in color from a dark green too a reddish hue---


Oh, it was propolis!  Oh dear

Here is more propolis. Allways same color.


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« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 01:07:56 AM by Finski » Logged

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rdy-b
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2013, 01:17:11 AM »

.
When I look your hive picture, I see quite much poo on frames. It is a sign of Gnostic hive and it may explains why the colony has not build up after buying.
But cold weathers and too much room is enough to explain the speed too.

Nosema spoils the gut of workers and sick bees are not able to feed larvae. When new bees emerge, they avoid the disease and they start normal growth of colony.

Old frames are really old and you must renew them when colony grows.

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Never mind. Beekeeping is exactly like this. What you can do is learn.
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 big difference between the pics you posted and what is going on with the nuc----

 the nuc dose not have nosemea--your pic however is what happens when bees die with a gut full of crap
 in a snow bound environment -pic was sad to look at--one size dose not fit all  
 http://www.thehoneygatherers.com/images3.1/stock/Anglais/10Bee-pollen-propolis/Bee-Pollen-Propolis18.jpg
 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 01:41:14 AM by rdy-b » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2013, 03:30:13 AM »

.
We are both  experienced beekeepers, and we do not agrue, what is poo or propolis.
You are nearer to that hive. You must be right. I cannot see sharply to another side of globe.

Very much propolis then on frames. I have never that much on top bar. The frames are surely over 30 years old.
They have molded and flamed many times.
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« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2013, 05:38:11 PM »

So, I went outside today to get other work done, and figured a nice warm day, I'll go peek and see how they have progressed. As soon as I got the outer cover off bees started pouring out. Pulled the inner cover, and more bees boiling over. Gave a peek down at the previously undrawn frames, and every one was at least 70% drawn. Apparently, they've been busy. I put the second deep on, and closed everything back up. I also put a cork in the bottom deep hole, so that they (eventually) will use the upper hole. Looked to me like they were going to need the space in the next few days.

I just wish I had my camera with me to get pictures.

And after going back out 3 hours later, there is a whole bunch of activity at the bottom entrance and within 20 feet of the hive. Maybe I angry them off with the cork, or it could be orientation flights. It's all new to me.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:19:10 PM by robk23678 » Logged
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