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Author Topic: question about 5 frame nuc progress  (Read 1786 times)
robk23678
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« on: June 25, 2013, 10:20:10 AM »

At the end of May, we traveled 170 miles each way to pick up our first nuc, a 5 frame VSH. Crazy, I know, but I had a difficult time finding anything. Due to rain, it was 3 days before we could move them to the new housing, a single 10 frame deep to start.

Checked on them yesterday, and they had started drawing out frames 6 and 7 in the box. Probably a bit early, but I added the 2nd 10 frame, along with switching to a ventilated inner cover (temps were 86 yesterday and supposed to be higher here today), as I would like to disturb them as little as possible, and had no plans of any honey for us this year, partially due to the lateness of the year getting them, and because I know how long and cold our winters are here

I think they have a good location, right next to a very large lilac bush, and only 100 yards to a large garden, and field, of ours, and a temporary bowl of water until I get to town to pick up a nice yard fountain (spoiled girls).

From what I read, they should probably have the entire 6th frame drawn by now and a good bit of the 7th. However, it has been a bit colder here early on, and we have had a few rainy periods.

I have not found a lot of stuff on progress from 5 frame starts, only on package bees. Should they have more drawn out, or is this about normal?
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Psparr
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 10:46:42 AM »

Bees will be bees. Unless there's something externally holding them back, they will build the comb when they feel like it.

I bought a 10 frame box of bees this year as my first hive and was worried about the rate at which they were drawing out comb. Basically nothing for about a month. Then all of a sudden they filled another whole box in about two weeks. Now nothing again. Pretty good weather and certainly a flow.

Again. The first hard lesson I learned. Bees will be bees.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 11:17:07 AM »

It depends on the condition of the bees and how much brood they had. Were all 5 frames filled with capped brood or was there one frame with brood, a frame or 2 of honey/pollen and a couple of empty frames. The latter was what my second nuc was when I bought it.I wondered why the guy I bought it from picked up 3 frames together and then picked up the other 2 and put them in my hive. I was just about ready to take it back 3 weeks later when it finally started to drastically build up. Another problem it that quite often the queen does not survive the trip and they have to replace her which really sets the hive back.
Jim
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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 11:33:22 AM »

At the end of May, we traveled 170 miles each way to pick up our first nuc, a 5 frame VSH.

 to the new housing, a single 10 frame deep to start.

Checked on them yesterday, and they had started drawing out frames 6 and 7 in the box. Probably a bit early, but I added the 2nd 10 frame, along with switching to a ventilated inner cover (temps were 86 yesterday and supposed to be higher here today), as I would like to disturb them as little as possible, and had no plans of any honey for us this year, partially due to the lateness of the year getting them, and because I know how long and cold our winters are here



 

It seems that the colony have had too big and cold hive, because it has not been able to develope much after picking.

A space from 5 to 10 frames has been too big jump and the colony growth has went backwards.
 Perhaps part of brood have died.

Now they are drawing  6 and 7 th frames. It is not time to give more space.  So the colony fills only 60% of box and if you give one box more, it fills only 30%. It means that colony must heat up their brood  mucjh when heat escapes to empty 70% room.

That tiny nuc does not need ventilated inner cover.

.Now, you should take backwards.

- Keep it in one box and wait that colony occupy all 10 frames.
- If you have mesh floor, close it.
- entrance 50 mm x 10 mm is enough.
- Insulation onto inner cover..

- If I were you, I would put extra movable wall into the hive box and I would take 3 frames off.
Piece of polystyrene insulation boad is good and easy to do.

- What about food and laying space? How many percent of frames colony had food stores?
- one food frames ( all together) and the rest pollen and brood is good realtion. If you have too much food, take one food frame off.

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JWChesnut
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 12:09:31 PM »

Agree totally with Finski. You are giving them way too much space.  Wait for them to fill their box-- when you get nectar in the brood side of the 1st and 10th frame -- then you can add. No need for ventilation unless you see frantic bearding and fanning, which I very much doubt will be the case.  You want ventilation to evaporate nectar to honey -- which you are not going to have this year.  A little hive will not overheat from metabolism, and the extra temperature speeds brood development and general welfare.
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capt44
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 12:25:00 PM »

I agree, let the bees fill out the frames in the brood box before adding another box with frames.
If I see they are leaving the outside frames untouched I move the honey frames to the outside and move the empty frames in.
I believe a lot of times it is a temperature issue.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
Finski
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 01:23:40 PM »

.
To a beginner playing with small hives is difficult.

I have all the time small colonies. They are easy to help over dead line when I take emerging brood frames from big hives.

But one hive is difficult.

 2 weeks ago I had a hive which had one box full of brood. It did went to another box, even if I tried the box under or over.
Then my friend donated one langstroth box swarm bees. During next 24 hours the queen has layed 4 frames in that super what I offered 2 weeks.

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« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 12:12:31 AM by Finski » Logged

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robk23678
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 01:40:53 PM »

It depends on the condition of the bees and how much brood they had. Were all 5 frames filled with capped brood or was there one frame with brood, a frame or 2 of honey/pollen and a couple of empty frames. The latter was what my second nuc was when I bought it.I wondered why the guy I bought it from picked up 3 frames together and then picked up the other 2 and put them in my hive. I was just about ready to take it back 3 weeks later when it finally started to drastically build up. Another problem it that quite often the queen does not survive the trip and they have to replace her which really sets the hive back.
Jim

I'm pretty sure I spotted the queen yesterday when I was inspecting. Definitely she's been there in the past few days as plenty of laying.
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Finski
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 02:26:56 PM »

.
The queen is able to lay many fold compared to recent, but all
depends how much bees can nurse brood and keep them warm.

-
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robk23678
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 03:15:30 PM »

OK. I removed the second box and the ventilated inner cover.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 03:49:51 PM by Robo » Logged
sc-bee
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 04:46:07 PM »

Definitely not a hive to add another box too at this time. Need to see pictures of frames. You did not mention it but you have been feeding, right?
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John 3:16
robk23678
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 05:07:41 PM »

I have pictures of the frames, but am not allowed to post them yet. too low of a post count apparently.

I was feeding them a 1:1, but they stopped taking it after a week.Their entrance is literally 5 feet from a giant lilac bush (and i hate to use the word bush, as it takes up twice as much more space than my gmc suburban).
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 05:32:53 PM »

 I started off with 2 nucs this year. I traveled around the same distance to pick them up, around 3 hours each way. I had to transfer the nucs to deep at the place I picked them up at. So there was 5 frames of brood and honey with 3 empty, foundationless frames and an empty feeder for the drive home in each box.
 They stayed in the back of the pick up overnight and got moved to their new home first thing in the morning. When I opened them the next morning. one hive already started building comb on an empty frame. That hive has been building since, they'll be getting their 4th box added this week.
 The other hive wasn't doing much of anything as far as building. They were bring in pollen and nectar , but doing very little building. (I pulled the feeders out after a week and replaced with 2 empty frames)
 When the busy hive was ready for it's first new box, I went ahead and added one to the slower building hive. Naturally, they weren't doing much with it. That nuc came with a broken frame, so after the brood emerged, I cut the comb out and cut it in half to fit into 2 medium frames and added to the boxes. That got them up there and they quickly attached that comb to the frame. I pulled partly drawn frames from the busy hive and put it into the other hive. They build those out as well.
 This week I had a population boom and they went into building mode. All but one frame is drawn and full of honey and they'll be getting their 3rd box this week.
 Basically, no two hives are going to do the same thing. They'll build up when they're ready. Having two hives, I can use one to help the other out a tiny bit. But since that hive is working on building itself up, I don't want to take too much resources from them.
 Keep the drawn frames together. If you do have a frame with no brood, put an undrawn frame between it and the rest. I'm sure you'll soon have more bees than you'll know what to do with.

 Good Luck
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sc-bee
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 05:37:21 PM »

I have pictures of the frames, but am not allowed to post them yet. too low of a post count apparently.

I was feeding them a 1:1, but they stopped taking it after a week.Their entrance is literally 5 feet from a giant lilac bush (and i hate to use the word bush, as it takes up twice as much more space than my gmc suburban).

Someone post that one for you. Not sure of count and how long to post pictures. Shoulkd not be two high a count.

Does look like you may have some issues if that colony has been feed.
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robk23678
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 05:46:37 PM »

I had to "upload" the picture but it rejected it and said I had to e-mail the link to photos@beemaster.com for it to be added until I had a higher post count. Hope it resolves soon. I'll try to post the frame ones myself to see what happens.
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robk23678
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 06:10:01 PM »

Wife took these today:

postimg.org/gallery/a6taf03e/

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robk23678
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 10:58:10 PM »

Would it hurt to put the feeder back on? Good idea? Bad idea?
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Finski
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 12:11:30 AM »

Would it hurt to put the feeder back on? Good idea? Bad idea?

It really hurts. You should take extra food stores off and not to fill combs with sugar.
They get from nature all food now.

Feeding does not accelerate build up because it depends on
amount of bees.
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Finski
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2013, 12:20:11 AM »

.
When I look your hive picture, I see quite much poo on frames. It is a sign of nosemic hive and it may explains why the colony has not build up after buying.
But cold weathers and too much room is enough to explain the speed too.

Nosema spoils the gut of workers and sick bees are not able to feed larvae. When new bees emerge, they avoid the disease and they start normal grotht of colony.

Old frames are really old and you must renew them when colony grows.

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Never mind. Beekeeping is exactly like this. What you can do is learn.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 12:51:02 AM »

I agree with what Mr Finski has said in this thread.  We’ve had a couple of days in the mid 80s here too, but there is rarely a need for a ventilated inner cover in our northerly locations.  You don't have nearly enough bees to add a 2nd box yet.  Don’t feed, there is plenty of nectar around now for the bees.  Your frames are definitely aged.  Keep in mind that it takes 21 days for new bees to be created, so you won’t see a big jump in numbers overnight.  With your clearly older frames, I might be a little worried about a bad varroa infestation if they don’t start building up for you.  The one photo you’ve got posted so far, doesn’t look too bad to me, sans the bronze age frames. Smiley
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