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Author Topic: New brood chamber placement???  (Read 520 times)
Gametracker
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« on: June 21, 2013, 12:45:44 AM »

Does anyone know whether it makes a difference if you place a deep super of new foundation below or above existing brood chambers?  I know we typically add supers on top of everything else...but I have some feeble, personal hypothesis that the bees may draw comb out quicker if they have to travel up and across it to get to the existing brood/storage chambers.  I think it would give them more room and comfort when high in numbers/population since they're bearding all over the front here in the South Carolina evenings.  Has anyone tried this method of placing supers below existing brood chambers???   What are the thoughts of y'all?  Sincerely, Gerry
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don2
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 01:01:37 AM »

The last one I placed on top. It was drawn out and full of eggs in a week and half. now it is nursing 6 queen cells and the second one is filling up with brood. Of course I removed the first one and set it up by itself.  Smiley d2
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Gametracker
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 01:30:35 AM »

I see you're from GA...I'm from SC.  I have a new colony that is busting out of the seams in 4 medium supers and don't want to take honey off it this year as it's a new acquisition with a new queen.  Do you think it's too late for me to split the colony and have success them raising a new queen with eggs, larva, brood and nurse bees (all while feeding to ensure nectar supplement is present)?  If you agree, I suppose it would be better if I introduce a purchased new queen to save at least 3-4 weeks for new eggs.  Thoughts?
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Gametracker
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 01:36:15 AM »

BTW, I eventually want to transition all my hives to 2x deep brood chambers vice 4x mediums like I'm find more common here in my region of SC.  I hail from PA and I'm use to keep all my brood chambers at 2x deep for better winter turnover though I've been on a 30 year hiatus since being in the Air Force until retiring recently.  I personally find it a little too tedious to handle 4x mediums vice 2x deep brood chambers.  To me weight is not an issue with brood and stores.  However, as I get older...I will no longer run deep supers for honey...mediums all the way above the brood chambers.  What say y'all??
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don2
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 02:04:38 AM »

I just split one and plan to split another to get one more. It is not too late, as long as drones are around there should not be a problem. This is what I did. My nuc that I got on the 11 of May had filled the second box to 7 frames. There were 4 and one half  frames of capped brood, about 6 frames of bees and two frames with a few eggs and newly hatched brood with food on those two. I just set it off to another bottom board and top and fed. You could shake a few extra bees in but I didn't. Now I have two frames with 3 queen cells on each and have to split it into two mating nucs tomorrow. To begin with leave everything together in one 10 frame box till the queen cells are capped. If you are going for just one more this box will be the start. As soon as the queen starts laying go ahead and add the second box, The capped brood will be hatched by then and they will need the space.  once they are capped all other cells are also capped and the nurse bees has no more brood to tend to. In a 10 frame medium I would put at least 5 or 6 frames of capped brood with the bees on. I did not notch mine, I just let the bees pick where they wanted to build the cells. Of course it was new wax. If you want only one queen I would use only one frame with eggs and newly hatched brood. More than that and they will build queen cells all over the place. Let me know how it goes. If you have any questions just ask. Some one else may tell you to do it different, that is O.K. choose which ever way suits you. Make sure you reduce the entrance on your split. I closed mine to about an inch and half. Hope this helps.  Smiley d2

For switching to deeps just set the mediums of the bottom and put a deep on the bottom board. Re stack the way they came off. Repeat when it is time to add another deep. You may end up having to harvest at one medium of honey, possibly two. You don't want to leave tow much extra honey on over winter. Every thing will be after it.
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Gametracker
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 02:15:07 AM »

D2,
  Great advice and thanks for the reply.  I never really thought about leaving too much honey on top for the winter stores and other pests interested in feasting on it.  Back in the 70's I never heard of a hive beetle and little, if anything of a mite (let alone mites) and now I'm hearing of a zombie fly!??  Geez!  All we had to worry about back then in PA was Nosema, AFB, wax moths, skunks and bears!!  It's no wonder the poor honeybee is struggling to survive today!  I would like to keep in touch...is there a way to Pm on this site?  I just joined the other day.  Thanks again, Gerry
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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 04:40:54 AM »

Does anyone know whether it makes a difference if you place a deep super of new foundation below or above existing brood chambers? 

bees may draw comb out quicker

  Has anyone tried this method of placing supers below existing brood chambers???   What are the thoughts of y'all?  Sincerely, Gerry

In Finland there are now main rule that first enlargement is done under the brood.

To give 100% more space over the brood makes heat control of the colony very difficult.
That is why the colony starts its build up from up and comes down the combs during summer.

This is "international beekeeping forum" and there are many weathers and climate zones on "international zone".
Mostly "international zone" stops to the nearest forest edge.

But however, putting second box under the brood helps that bees occupy the space as soon as they can.
Bees may move to upper box but often they abandon part of brood down stairs.

But the basic is that the colony enlarge if they have bees to occupy the frames.
Do bees draw quickly or slowly the foundations, it has no meaning.
They do it when they need new combs.
But if the colony waits for swarming, they often stop foundation drawing.


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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 10:03:28 AM »

>In Finland there are now main rule that first enlargement is done under the brood.

I would agree in my climate.  Usually, however, it's still cold when this is happening.  This year things were strange and running behind and it probably wouldn't matter as much as the nights were not that cold by the time a package would have built enough to add the second brood box.  The advantage to putting it on top is you can see better when it's full... the advantage to putting it on the bottom is, as Finski says, they can keep it warm better.  Down is the natural direction for the brood nest.  This is even more critical when you have foundationless.

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
don2
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 11:40:10 AM »

Gametracker, click on my name on one of my post/replies. a box will come up with all my info in it. at the bottom of this box there are some lines. the first one  say's  ( send this person a message) click on that line and a message box will pop up. At the top of the thread page there is a category line with several links, one is "my messages" this is where you will receive your P.M's.   Smiley d2
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Gametracker
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2013, 12:14:26 PM »

Does anyone know whether it makes a difference if you place a deep super of new foundation below or above existing brood chambers? 

bees may draw comb out quicker

  Has anyone tried this method of placing supers below existing brood chambers???   What are the thoughts of y'all?  Sincerely, Gerry

In Finland there are now main rule that first enlargement is done under the brood.

To give 100% more space over the brood makes heat control of the colony very difficult.
That is why the colony starts its build up from up and comes down the combs during summer.

This is "international beekeeping forum" and there are many weathers and climate zones on "international zone".
Mostly "international zone" stops to the nearest forest edge.

But however, putting second box under the brood helps that bees occupy the space as soon as they can.
Bees may move to upper box but often they abandon part of brood down stairs.

But the basic is that the colony enlarge if they have bees to occupy the frames.
Do bees draw quickly or slowly the foundations, it has no meaning.
They do it when they need new combs.
But if the colony waits for swarming, they often stop foundation drawing.
.


Okay, I did the split yesterday afternoon and placed a deep super of foundation below two mediums of comb with a good mix of brood and storage.  I reduced the hive entrances and will see what happens.  The first thing I noticed (since the brood chambers are above the super of foundation) is that the foragers are entering the inner cover hole as an entrance and are using the bottom board entrance as the exit.  Veeerrryy Interesting.
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