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Poll
Question: Does the UAW deserve a pay raise
Yes - 2 (25%)
No - 6 (75%)
Total Voters: 8


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Author Topic: UAW Raise  (Read 1127 times)
BlueBee
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« on: June 20, 2013, 02:50:43 AM »

General Motors tops the quality charts for the first time.  applause
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/19/autos/jd-power-gm/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Should the UAW get a pay raise for this laudable achievement? 
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 10:00:33 AM »

are they not supposed to turn out a quality car?  why pay a bonus for doing your job?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
gdoten
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 10:58:22 AM »

Of course they should. Why, just borrow some more money from the taxpayer to give to those fine workers. Then just don't pay it back! Pretty sweet; it worked for their 2009 bailout. Surely us taxpayers can easily cough up, oh, let's say, $1,000,000,000 for bonuses for the execs too. How could the union workers ever possibly have made quality cars without their leadership? Worth every penny, I'd say! Just add all these raises onto the minimum of $20,000,000,000 they owe us, a drop in the bucket so why be cheap?

I already gave Govt Motors $16,000 from my 401(k) (I wouldn't want to be known as a greedy investor, after all), and a whole bunch more through my taxes. Please tell me where I can mail them a check so I can give them even more for being such busy little bees! Maybe I can use my next few months of medical insurance payments to give them a bit more so they can afford their Govt medical insurance payments. I sure can't afford them, so why not make the burden easier on others? And no, there's no reason to pay me back this time either, but thanks for asking!
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-glenn-
buzzbee
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 09:13:08 PM »

May I make a counter offer? Pay cuts for crap?
 Lets let the unions start by paying back the taxpayers for bailing out their jobs. If my boss falters I see no taxpayer funds coming my way.

The UAW was part of the problem to begin with.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 11:18:56 PM »

Wow, one brave soul voted to pay for performance in the poll. applause  (It wasn’t me, I’m abstaining from this poll).   What a concept though, pay more for the most productive workers. Guess too many beeks would rather have a communist system where performance is frowned upon. Cry 

Here’s the funny thing, these same beeks usually applaud when a CEO takes home 100 million a year.  They like to claim he “earned” 100 million!  Now that is laughable.  laugh
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BlueBee
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 11:24:20 PM »

May I make a counter offer? Pay cuts for crap?
I like this idea; a clawback system.  How much did we end up clawing back from the bank CEOs and traders who trashed the world economy in 2007?
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gdoten
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 09:55:28 AM »

Just like BB, I am appalled at the heinous amounts of money that entertainers, sports figures, executives, and many others make. In this administration, I think we finally (finally!) have the right people to put into place the Ministry of Equal Pay. Since these people cannot be counted on to accept reasonable annual salaries we clearly need a new Fed outfit to set them right. The shiny new Fed budget of $3,803,000,000,000 is $901,000,000,000 in the hole, and there's no better way to fill that gap than to cut back Alec Baldwin's annual pay down to something reasonable, like to the hourly cost of operating Air Force One. And since they are so good at budgeting, they are absolutely the right people to run the MEP. I'm still waiting for that address where I can send the Feds extra money for these wonderful programs.

Those evil banker CEOs had the nerve to pay back what they borrowed, with interest. Those fools-of-excess only borrowed what they were pretty sure they could pay back, and as the Feds show us, that's no way to run a ship! GM didn't pay back what they borrowed, but why should they? Look at their quality ratings; they certainly mean well! (Isn't there at least an award we can give them?) I'm sure the 270,000,000 shares of GM the Feds have invested for me (the UAW needed raises, you know) will soon be worth megabucks, and they will deposit a large chunk of those earnings into my 401(k), at which time I will no longer have to manage the 401(k) myself but can leave that mess to the Fed investment experts. Yeah, that's what I'm "banking" on!
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 10:43:46 AM »

the MEP!  I like it  lau
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 10:54:00 AM »

Bluebee, there's a proper place for this thread. It's called HUMOR is a FUNNY THING.
You should have posted it there.

It should be read with the same sarcasm as gdoten's post.
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sticbow
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 11:02:00 AM »

Well I guess if the IRS employees deserve 70 million in bonuses,  the UAW deserves a raise!!  The government should take care of all its employees equally!!  
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 12:28:31 PM by sticbow » Logged
kingbee
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 12:39:12 PM »

The only way for the UAW to earn a raise is for them to develop that fist sized reactor that the very person who started this thread was so critical of in another thread. 

I have worked or tried to work UAW members who were furloughed from GM.  The old poem about FDR's WPA applied to everyone of these down on their luck UAW members.  It went something like this,

"One a coming,
one a going,
one a S******,
and one a hoeing."

This means that in a fair economy the average UAW member would only be paid 25% of what everyone else is paid for supposedly performing the same work.  Sorry BlueBee but that is the only impression that the majority of the UAW members that I have known left me with.  Sure, there are exceptions but there are not enough exceptions to make up for the huge number of slackers in many union shops. 

Now if your President was a fair man he would stand on the UAW's toes until they admit large numbers of illegal aliens  who actually want a job and who don't mind working.  Then the UAW could feel the American Blue Collar workers' pain.  It is my experience that these illegals are not just out to cash a paycheck.  The UAW still has more in common with New York City's unionized garbage collectors than they have with workers in almost any other industry. 

Observe the typical bloated Government Union tick, This Government Union fat cat charges almost $1,500 in union catered "POWER" lunches against his own union's retirement fund each and every month.  He also sued NYC because the NYC ambulances are not big enough to carry him to hospital when he has a heart attack. This guy has unionism down to a fine art.  He comes into the office @ 12:00 Noon every day.  Then he breaks for lunch, and sleeps till 2:00PM when the whistle blows telling him that it's time to go home after another hard day on the job.


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BlueBee
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 12:27:21 AM »




Another good reason to back Mayor Bloomberg’s calorie initiatives; good point Kingbee. applause
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BlueBee
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 12:29:56 AM »

So you want the UAW to build you a car with a fist sized nuclear reactor?  Do you and Moots have plenty of lead underwear in stock?  laugh  Maybe you don’t know this, but most of the UAW workers are not nuclear physicists. lau  By, hey if you want to be their guinea pig (so to speak), I bet they would be much obliged (especially after reading this post). angel

I hate to break it to you, but an assembly line moves at a constant pace (60+ cars/hour), if the workers just sit on their butts like your photo, no cars would ever get built.  GM sells over 250,000 vehicles a month.  Compared to some of the other unions out there, the UAW are busting butt.

As for fantasy land, here’s your 1941 atomic car in Popular Mechanics.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ftkDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false
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kingbee
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 04:03:39 AM »

...

most of the UAW workers are not nuclear physicists.... if you want to be their guinea pig ...I bet they would be much obliged


Every time I make a financial transaction I and every other American are already being experimented on by the UAW by virtue of the tax money that we are required to pay out of all transactions either as a tax, a fee, or in the form of a rule or regulation.  Your and my favorite guinea pig, the Chevy Volt is but one of these Frankenstein experiments the government preforms with the precision of a chain saw on everyone's bank account or pocket book to pay the UAW for their past slobbering lap dog obedience. 

The galling thing is that I and 90% of the rest of the USA get nothing, or at least far less for our tax dollars.  Union dues ARE tax deductible and donations to a political campaign are NOT tax deductible.  Where is the fairness in that?  Today many if not all unions are just political campaign finance committees used to laundry or pass through illegal campaign donations.  So the next time a union member rues the fact that the USA doesn't make "stuff" anymore, remind him that the blame rests with todays unions.

Tell me Blue, would the UAW go out on strike if say GM asked their workers on one assembly line to increase production by 100 cars per month or 1 car per 8 hour shift?  Like iddee, I never expect you to answer this question.  I've heard before that silence is golden, but in some cases silence is just yellow.   
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BlueBee
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2013, 11:51:43 AM »

Prior to bankruptcy, the UAW contracts were VERY rigid with regards to work rules.  You may be unfamiliar with LEGAL contracts as well, I don’t know. I dunno  Legal contracts usually carefully lay out what can and can’t be done.  I’m sure there were clauses in the contracts regarding the line rate.  So to answer your question:  If GM or Ford tried to sneak an extra car through the line every 8 hours that would likely be a grievance.  I doubt they would go out on strike over one instance of a contract violation, but if it occurred frequently along with other violations, they would be more tempted to strike.  In case you've been sleeping at the wheel again, the UAW hasn't been on strike many times in the past 20 years.  

Do you think your bank would mind if you decided to give them $100 less a month on your mortgage contract?  I’m betting it wouldn’t be too long before they would start the foreclosure process.  That is the way contracts work, Kingbee.  Both parties are responsible for what they commit to in a legal contract.

BTW… I always answer the questions.  I can’t help it if y’all don’t like the facts. laugh
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kingbee
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2013, 01:22:18 PM »


You still did not address my fairness question.
Since you are in a question answering mood, how's-bout a two-for?

In the Democrat Party's version of the world, fairness is what keeps the Moon orbiting the Earth and holds the Earth in its orbit round the Sun, not gravity.  Come on old buddy take a deep breath, blow it out s-l-o-w-e-l-y, Lemans style.  Think of answering this question like it is natural child birth, believe me, it will only hurt for a little while. 

The question is:, Is it fair that union dues are tax deductible when other political contributions are not tax deductible for purposes of calculating your Income Tax? 

The proposal:  If Congress forces the UAW to pay taxes on their dues, while at the same time tightening up the accounting rules on Greedy Motors by forcing GM to pay income taxes on certain expenses like advertising, carbon based energy consumption, and labor or by reducing "Big Energies" depreciation allowance, then what teeny tiny, little pin prick, of pain is the UAW and other unions willing to experience to make this world a better place?  It will only cost each of the rank and file between $300 to $500 in additional income taxes, and the City of Detroit or Egypt can sure use the money.  Now isn't that a fair proposal?   I dunno
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BlueBee
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2013, 02:16:19 PM »

Kingbee, come on now, you’ve certainly been around the block enough times to know life is not fair.  huh  Of coarse it’s not fair that Union dues are tax deductible on the income taxes.  If you look hard enough you might find a few other areas of income tax law that are not fair either! laugh  I’m not saying 2 wrongs make a right, but it is what it is; and it is NOT fair.  Such is life. Sad 

I have no problem with your proposal to make the UAW pay taxes, but burdening GM with more anti competitive rules and regulations seems pretty fool hearty to me; especially since YOU’RE a part owner in GM.  lau 
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kingbee
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2013, 07:41:50 PM »

....

I have no problem with your proposal to make the UAW pay taxes, but burdening GM with more anti competitive rules and

regulations seems pretty fool hearty to me; especially since YOU’RE a part owner in GM.



You my friend are starting to sound like Donald Trump, or is it Shaun Hannity?  As for the "fair" word, how many times in the last 5 years has the current occupant and his band of demons mentioned "Paying your... or their fair share in reference to taxes?  I am just trying to help you out.  

Come to think of it I may not have to lift a finger.  I understand that this Tuesday that Obama is planning on taxing both the electricity we all need to see in the dark or access the Internet as well as the fuel used to build and power the Chevy Volt.  He will attempt this by issuing an executive decree or order like he was a Russian Czar.  I do hope the UAW members have a fall back plan in place, say someone like Ted Cruse or Marco Rubio even Rand Paul may be a good choice for them to fall back on in a right to work state like Michigan.  In the last 30 days the current occupant has fallen all most as low in the polls as he has ever been.  And the only way for the country to go up is for him to fall lower still.  That IMO is why he was so un-inspiring during his European visit this week.  He either saw the handwriting on the wall or else he heard the thunder of 600,000,000 angry feet closing in on him.

Here is what Obama and the other Leftist "Hope to Change" our country into.
Detroit in RUINS! (Crowder goes Ghetto)

« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 02:02:36 PM by kingbee » Logged
BlueBee
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 06:44:34 AM »

LOL, Kingbee you are failing in history 101 AGAIN.  Cry

Detroit sank to its current sad state more from racial problems than “leftists” and the UAW.  There was a massive white flight from the City in the 60s and 70s.  The money and tax base moved to the burbs.  With no tax base and a lot of infrastructure to maintain, you end up with a real mess.   I read an article the other night that HALF of the residents of the City of Detroit don’t pay their property taxes!  Up here that's typically about $2000 a year, depending upon how big your castle is.  Property taxes is the primary way local governments are funded.  Hence with so little revenues coming in and lots of old pensions to fund, there isn’t much left over to actually maintain the place.  

In Michigan, if you don’t pay your taxes for 2 years, the State forecloses on your property and sells it off in auction for back taxes due.  Maybe we could get you a nice vacation home in the City at the next auction Kingbee.  Do you have $5000 to spare?  You can even have your guns in the City, as if that will help you.  laugh
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kingbee
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 04:21:54 PM »

Two years before the state sells your property for back taxes is more grace time than Carpet Baggers gave the South.  I know because one of my ancestors lost 9,000 acres of timber land in 1866 because he couldn't pay his taxes.  This is one reason that property taxes  in the South are generally low. 

Two years is also more time than we get now before being sold out on the court house steps.  But because you seem to know so much about the subject, I suspect that you harbor dark ambitions to become a slum lord in your own right.  I did quite a bit of business with the Motor City back in the day (the 1970s) and I saw the present situation building.   

Do I detect a little racism in your opinion about Detroit's problems?  Other cities have similar issues but they don't have Detroit's problems.  Could it be that Detroit's large Mohammedan population is home sick for the middle east and they want to recreate the ruins and decay of their child hood?
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