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Author Topic: Emergency Queen Cells found in split now destoryed  (Read 1024 times)
ronledford
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« on: June 13, 2013, 10:07:26 AM »

Two weeks ago I split a hive. The split hive consisted of two boxes and one box had egg, uncapped and capped brood. Since it was heavily populated with bees I assumed the queen was on it and I just moved it and placed another box with honey and pollen on top. the following week, 6/6, I inspected and found emergency queen cells. I assumed wrong on the queen? Well, last night, 6/12, on inspection I found all emergency cells destroyed, torn out from the sides.

My question is, do I have a queen in this hive? Or are the bees doing something else? I did not see the queen.

I do have two queens on standby as I figure out what to do.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 10:33:00 AM »

when you saw those cells, did you check to see if there was something in them?  they build and tear out cells all the time.  if there was no queen in the split, two weeks is time enough for one to have hatched out, but not time enough for her to be mated and laying.

if you have no other signs of a queen in there now, give them a week and check again.  

additional note: if you can't stand waiting, put another fame of eggs in there.  if they are queenless, they will immediately start making one.  if they don't, do above.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 12:56:09 PM »

There is a good chance that the cell that the queen hatched from has already been removed. Last night I checked on a hive of a friend that I am mentoring. We only found one torn out queen cell in the hive. I did find eggs and larva, more than the bees could cover. I continued to look, and found a very young queen. She had just started laying eggs this week. There were very few bees left so today he is going to open his other hive, a medium brood and 3 almost full medium supers that was started this year, and remove bees and capped brood and add them to the weak hive.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 04:42:19 PM »

  Is it possible that one of the frames from the split had
a queen cell on it and it got used in the split-----before any new emergency
cells where made---RDY-B
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ronledford
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 01:55:29 PM »

Thank you to everyone for your input.

I went back into this hive and found the cell the queen hatched out of. Still can't believe I missed it the first go around. I was probably moving too fast when I conducted the split. So, I have buttoned this hive back up and set 7/7 as the next time I will go into this hive and inspect. If questionable I will just re-queen or combine this split with the parent. I know emergency queens are not the preferred solution but I want to see what happens with this queen.
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"I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." Harriet Tubman (c. 1822 – 10 March 1913)
sc-bee
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 04:35:39 PM »

I know emergency queens are not the preferred solution but I want to see what happens with this queen.

I know there is a queen breeder that post alot of videos on line that removes his queens from his hives has the bees pull cell and cut the cells and raises the queens. Sometimes we get caught up in terms. It all depends on the condition of the hive that raised the cell and feeding conditions and age of the larvae they choose or are forced to choose. Some folks say swarm cell queens cause swarm prone bees.

So must all good queens be grafted. Naw........

If the cell was there when you did the split as you said you missed it, would it not be a swarm queen? Or did I interpret that wrong? Split two weeks ago. time for them to realize they are queenless and draw cells, 15 to 16 days to hatch, sounds more like a missed swarm cell.

Anyway she needs time to mate and lay now. Another two weeks or so. How are you keeping your standby queens?

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hardwood
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 05:04:12 PM »

Grafted queens ARE emergency queens. You just make sure they have the resources they need to raise good ones.

Scott
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sc-bee
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 05:12:19 PM »

Grafted queens ARE emergency queens. You just make sure they have the resources they need to raise good ones.

Scott

Agreed if you get downright technical about it, but not commonly referred to that way- But my point not well spoken is his emergency queen may be better than a commercial grafted one. Most queen producers just want to shove them out the door.


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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 07:23:55 PM »

yeah.  i can't remember that last time i purchased a queen.  there's nothing wrong with letting them make their own as long as they have had the resources to feed her well.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
ronledford
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 07:34:14 AM »

Yes, I get caught up in the "rules" of beekeeping.
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johng
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 01:55:49 PM »

Two weeks from the time you split the hive? Yes, it is quite possible you have virgin queen in the hive taking care of business.
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ronledford
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 10:53:48 AM »

I am still wondering what happened to the original queen - she was my first.  Cry

Yesterday I saw a lot of pollen being brought into the hive and most of the brood I placed in this hive should have hashed out by now. In two weeks I will go in and try to locate the queen.
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"I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." Harriet Tubman (c. 1822 – 10 March 1913)
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 08:12:25 AM »

Remember, you just need to see signs of a queen, eggs in the bottom of the cells and larva.
Jim
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sc-bee
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 08:30:21 AM »

If you split the hive two weeks from your original post of June 13 you are on day 26 today. You should be seeing eggs soon (usually within 28 days- latest 35 days or so). At latest, roughly another week. If not by then I would think problems.

Someone please check my math. Just got off nite shift.
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ronledford
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 10:56:54 AM »

Thank you for all of the posts and this hive has built up its population and survived an Apiguard treatment for mites.

This coming year I will work on handling and marking queens. Though I want to do as little intervention in the hive as possible, I believe this will go a long way in removing guess work from my beekeeping.

Thanks to all again.
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"I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." Harriet Tubman (c. 1822 – 10 March 1913)
trapperbob
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2013, 09:33:57 AM »

All my splits make there own queens. I don't care if they make surpluses honey the first year I just want them to build up enough for winter. If next spring I don't like what I see I take her out and let them do it again. This way I get queens adapted for my area. Not queens from 1500 miles away. I seldom have had to remove a queen. But I'm getting ready to start purposely raising queens so I can do summer/fall time requeening that way I have fresh queens in hives that are lackluster come spring. I've always believed requeening is best in fall instead of spring.
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