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Author Topic: Queenless hive  (Read 830 times)
Georgia Boy
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« on: June 12, 2013, 08:17:25 PM »

My hive #3 is definitely queenless. There aren't any eggs, larvae or capped brood. However there also isn't a queenless roar either. The workers are building queen cells and I saw larvae in them. I can only assume a worker laid in them. The workers are not laying in any other cell in the hive only the queen cells and are still collecting pollen and nectar.  

I have ordered a queen to put in the hive. Should be here by Friday. I hope.

Was reading on Michael's website about re queening a hive that has been queenless for a while and re-queening doesn't look like its a good idea. Most likely the bees won't accept her. It sounded like because the workers are laying in the queen cells in their minds they have a queen.

Anyway just need to know if I am doing the right thing.

When I introduce the queen cage I will be add a frame of eggs and brood from my strong hive at the same time. I won't uncork the candy until the bees aren't trying to kill her through the cage. If they are still trying to kill her I will just start a new hive with her.

Please tell me how to do this successfully.

Thanks

David
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don2
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 09:30:05 PM »

How long has it been sense you saw the last open brood? did you have a queen? I would add the frame of eggs/brood first. If you have already ordered a queen, put a nuc together from another colony till you see what this one is going to do. no use wasting the brood and a queen at the same time. My put.  Smiley d2
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Grandpa Jim
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 12:33:23 AM »

You say they do not have that queenless roar....usually a good sign that there is a queen, she is just not up and laying yet.  That roar or lack of it tells so much about your hive.   I am not sure of the time frame, but I think it takes a few weeks after that last brood hatches, before workers begin laying. If there is no queen and no eggs to make one....they are hopelessly queenless.  Even than it is not too hard to turn them around if you catch it before those eggs develop and hatch as tons of drones.....once they are that far, you got issues that are hard to change.  You have to be patient, but still vigilant.

I have talked more potential queen buyers out of buying queens until they do the "frame with eggs" test.  Most of the time I get an email or call a week later saying "I have a queen and eggs" .....and I have no sale Cry....But, that is a good thing Smiley.

Jim
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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 04:04:19 AM »

.
When a colony has capped queen cells, it accept very easily a new queen.
In larva stage it is often difficult.
.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 08:17:15 AM »

>I can only assume a worker laid in them.

Why wouldn't you assume a queen laid them?  Are there multiple eggs in the queen cells?

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Michael Bush
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 08:28:13 PM »


>>>Why wouldn't you assume a queen laid them?  Are there multiple eggs in the queen cells?

Since I am new to beekeeping I can only go on what I have read. I have had this hive for a little over a month. The first week the bees through out a lot of brood what wasn't discarded has since hatched. There are and have been no eggs laid other than the attempts queen cell in which all have died in the cells. There isn't any other eggs, larvae or capped brood. The amount of bee have been reducing everyday. They are only using about 4 frames of an eight frame hive. Each week I spend extra time with this hive looking for a queen but have not been able to find one. I have even taken pictures of every inch of the hive and frames to study to look for her. As best as I can tell there is not a queen even though there is no queenless roar. That is the only reason I don't think a queen laid them.

Being new I could be wrong.

Thanks David
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don2
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 08:36:04 PM »

You say hive #3, does this mean you have other hives? Simple, Get a frame of eggs and brood on it. Shak all the bees off back into the hive it comes out of. Remove a frame from the queen less hive that is empty. put in the frame of eggs/brood stay out of the hive for 9 days. Take a look then and see if they made any queen cells.  Smiley d2
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 08:29:41 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm
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Michael Bush
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 08:53:01 PM »

I got my nucs a couple weeks before you did. One hive is building very fast, plenty of bees and I added a third box last Sunday. The other hive is working much more slowly. There doesn't seem to be as many bee. When I looked at the brood laid on new comb, it was very spotty. Today I went in and the pattern was much tighter with plenty of larva that'll be capped soon. I figure within 20 days, I'll have a population boom in that hive and it should really take off.
 I'm suspecting that I lost a lot of brood from that hive during transport home and they're just now making up for it.  I only found one queen cell with nothing in it. My only worry is since the queen seem to have waited so long to start laying, she may be a bit honey bound. The frames with the brood was about 2/3 nectar and honey and 1/3 brood. I gave them a few frames with started comb from the other hive to seed their top box. Since Sunday that built the started comb and even have capped honey but haven't started any new frames.
 Tomorrow I'll break down the stronger hive to check the brood pattern. Hopefully it'll be solid and I'll spot the queen. I saw her Sunday for the first time, looked away for a second and she was gone. I don't know if the fell back into the hive, flew away, or blended in that well. There was a large bee buzzing by me a few times while I was putting it back together, but I didn't get a good look.
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 09:12:19 PM »

Hopefully it'll be solid and I'll spot the queen. I saw her Sunday for the first time, looked away for a second and she was gone. I don't know if the fell back into the hive, flew away, or .....

I know I sound like a friggin' broken record.  But what are you trying to accomplish by harrassing the queen.  She was laying happily in a brood nest, and now your  "beekeeping" has made it likely you have created a queenless, terminal hive just in time for mid-summer dearth.  I honestly don't get this. We read this story again and again. It's ridiculous and tragic. If the hive is thrifty-  let it be.  The insects will take care of themselves.

(I usually see the queen run down, she'll hide on the lower other side of the frame, or along the bottom bar).
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 10:58:57 PM »


I know I sound like a friggin' broken record.  But what are you trying to accomplish by harrassing the queen.  She was laying happily in a brood nest, and now your  "beekeeping" has made it likely you have created a queenless, terminal hive just in time for mid-summer dearth.  I honestly don't get this. We read this story again and again. It's ridiculous and tragic. If the hive is thrifty-  let it be.  The insects will take care of themselves.
The reason why I was down there was because I wasn't sure if that hive even had a queen. The hive was always buzzing loud and was much more defensive. Other than the brood that came with the nucs, I saw no new larva or eggs in the first month or so. Last Sunday I finally saw patchy capped worker brood. 
 So, I wasn't in there to poke my finger at the queen, I went in to see if I needed to order a new queen.
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Duane
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 03:36:56 PM »

I know I sound like a friggin' broken record.  But what are you trying to accomplish by harrassing the queen.  She was laying happily in a brood nest, and now your  "beekeeping" has made it likely you have created a queenless, terminal hive just in time for mid-summer dearth.  I honestly don't get this. We read this story again and again. It's ridiculous and tragic. If the hive is thrifty-  let it be.  The insects will take care of themselves.
I'm just wanting to understand here, but I thought we were supposed to inspect our hives every week or at least couple of weeks.  I see looking for a queen as part of the inspection, but I only look for her out of curiosity, but if I don't find her I don't worry.  I do worry that I could accidentally kill her as with other bees.  Since I only have one hive, I would be kind of out of luck during times they aren't raising brood.  Should we regularly look in our hives or not?
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marktrl
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »

Yes you should go into your hives especially if you are a new beek so you can learn. You can't learn what things are supposed to look like if you don't look at them. And taking pictures is also very helpful for a new beek so you can study things later.
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