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Author Topic: foundationless frames being ignored  (Read 778 times)
chux
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« on: June 08, 2013, 05:25:01 PM »

For three weeks I've had a medium full of foundationless frames on top of a deep with cut out brood comb, and a mess of bees. Most of the deep frames are filled with comb. One has a bit of open space left in it. They have connected the combs, and begun to fill most with nectar.

I didn't get the queen when I did the cut out, but a swarm cell queen has hatched out and begun laying. Still, the bees have not begun to build in the foundationless frames up top yet. There are bees up there, but they aren't building. I have popsicle comb guides on which I wiped a bit of bee wax to give them the idea, but no progress yet. As the new queen begins to lay more, should they begin to build up there to make more room? Is there something I need to do?

Thoughts??
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tjc1
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 06:02:49 PM »

My experience is that they don't build when you give them space, foundationless or not, unless they feel that they need it. They'll build up there when they are ready.
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 07:05:02 PM »

#1..They only build when they need it.

#2..If you have an excluder on, they may never build until they have no place to put more burr comb.

#3..They will build sooner if they have a ladder. IE: A frame of comb or foundation to crawl up on.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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tjc1
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 07:45:22 PM »

In regard to Number 3 above, how about the opposite placement - that is, put the new box of foundationless below so that they both crawl and build down? They still won't build unitl they are ready, but I'm thinking it makes the move easier.
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chux
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 09:57:49 PM »

Good thoughts, all. I cant put anything below the deep because the bottom board is attached. And I cant put a drawn frame in the medium because I dont have any medium built out yet....unless..

I have another deep and foundationless medium beside this one. Those bees have drawn out medium honey comb on about four frames. Could I brush the bees off one of these and put it in the center of the other hive medium?
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iddee
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 10:11:25 PM »

yes.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
10framer
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 12:27:12 AM »

could be between flows.  my bees weren't working at all this afternoon.  as far as excluders go, bees will go through them.  i have a hive that i added a super of foundation above an excluder and a hive body of foundation below the brood chamber and the super is drawn out and full and the deep is only starting to be drawn out.  a drawn comb would definitely help.
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chux
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2013, 05:49:19 AM »

Thanks all. I'll transfer a medium honey frame. Where should I place it? Center or side? I would like for the bees to eventually build brood comb in here to build numbers. is there a way to encourage that?

And, I am not using a queen excluder.
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 02:26:54 AM »

even with the popsicle stick guides, you'll have to keep an eye on them. If the sticks are too wide, the bees may start building separate comb on each side of the stick. I'll be using the wedge type from now on. Break the cleat and turn it on it's side and glue it back on. It gives a little less than 1/4 inch guide and I haven't had any double comb being built on those frames yet.
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chux
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 08:38:33 AM »

I haven't been pleased with the popsicle sticks. The hive that is building honey comb out, has been building on one side. I've had to go in there and push the comb over. That's ok as long as you catch it early, but when they build it on out off center like that, it gives a headache. On my Top Bar Hive, I cut wedges and nailed them to the bars. The bees build on that great. Always centered on the edge. I think from now on I will put wedges on the frames. I build my own frames too. I use salvaged untreated wood.
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