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Author Topic: Record high Gasoline Prices AGAIN  (Read 2788 times)
BlueBee
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« on: June 08, 2013, 01:06:01 AM »

We’re paying RECORD high prices for gasoline up here in Michigan again. Sad Sad Sad  The highest price is the entire country!  What’s up with that huh 

http://www.freep.com/article/20130607/BUSINESS06/306070129/michigan-gas-prices-record-high
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 07:26:02 AM »

Gotta pay those union employees. I bought it this weekend for $3.23 in this RTW state.   evil evil  lau lau
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 09:22:51 AM »

All part of what Obama and his Energy Secretary wanted....
LINK TO ARTICLE!

Although, I'm sure the administration would have preferred that the Energy secretary not be quite so honest about their intentions.
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 09:29:02 AM »

there was also a report out that we were closer to energy independance now, than we have ever been.  i believe they speculated that by 2025, we could be there.

so...what's the problem?   Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 11:12:55 AM »

I think you hit the nail on the head KathyP.   Citibank says by 2020.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100450133

However Big Oil clearly has us in a stranglehold and can demand as much profit as they want regardless of how much “drilling” Palin wants to do.  Just another example that you can’t drill your way out of high prices for the stuff.

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BlueBee
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 11:15:41 AM »

Iddee, the paychecks the drillers get make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers!
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kingbee
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 03:25:37 PM »

....

the paychecks the drillers get make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers!


 I'm sorry I'm sorry
No my fine blue feathered friend, the paychecks oil field workers cash doesn't make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers.  However the amount of work that oil field workers preform and the short amount of time in which rough necks preform this work, by comparison makes the UAW look like a bunch of paralytic narcoleptics.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:48:22 PM by kingbee » Logged
Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 03:27:40 PM »

Michigan is right to work now, since mar 23rd. it has nothing to do with that. It is probably a scam really....a shell game of sorts. they are trying to claim that michigan refineries didn't get their supply to meet current obligations and were forced to then buy outside contract...but come on...thats pretty weak.... I think things are being done on purpose frankly to shift assets from one area to others, and keep bouncing them around to keep people confused and unable to line real things up. If they piss each area off only 1/2 year at a time, then no one is constantly screwed over to the point of constantly being p*ssed.
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2013, 03:31:01 PM »

....

the paychecks the drillers get make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers!


 I'm sorry I'm sorry
No my fine blue feathered friend, the paychecks oil field workers deposit doesn't make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers.  However the amount of work that oil field workers preform and the amount of time rough necks need to preform this work, does make the UAW look like a bunch of paralytic narcoleptics by comparison.

right.as a percentage basis, oil profits are fairly low....liberals seem to just want to look at the profit number itself, but the govt steals far more then anyone really in taxes, and they don't do anything to really earn it at all.
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RC
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2013, 03:47:12 PM »

Regarding the paychecks of drillers, I worked on an oil rig in the gulf for a few years. We worked 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, in whatever weather. When your shift ended, you ran thru the shower, swallowed some food and jumped in the bed that was just vacated by the guy who took your place on the rig. We worked 14 days on, 14 days off. You were trapped on that rig until the crew boat came to take you to the shore. If you relief didn't show up, guess what? You were trapped for another 14 days. This was exhausting, dangerous work. We weren't supervising a robot painting a car or drop engines in a chassis in an air conditioned factory. We didn't eat from the company cafeteria or take breaks or have days off. If you were sick, you worked sick. We didn't go home at the end of the day, we spent the night with a crew of sweaty, stinking men. We can fuss about the price of gas and oil all we want to, and I'm certainly not trying to justify it. But the people on the oil rigs earn their money.
On another note, the price of gas is set by the world market. If a particular area is not in line with the rest of the country, it is a problem associated with that area.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 09:09:09 PM »

Perhaps the formulation changes mandated by the EPA in your area accounts for some of the shortages.Summer gasoline needs refined and blended differently,requiring a changeover.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 10:56:45 PM »

There’s always some excuse for high gas prices Cry  It usually seems more like gouging or manipulation than a real supply vs demand problem.  Michigan doesn’t have/need a special summer blend beyond the normal national summer gas formulation.  We have very few ozone alert days here.  It usually doesn’t get that hot and the climate and geography is such that the wind blows our ozone to Canada and Pennsylvania. Smiley   
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2013, 11:52:48 PM »

There’s always some excuse for high gas prices Cry  It usually seems more like gouging or manipulation than a real supply vs demand problem.  Michigan doesn’t have/need a special summer blend beyond the normal national summer gas formulation.  We have very few ozone alert days here.  It usually doesn’t get that hot and the climate and geography is such that the wind blows our ozone to Canada and Pennsylvania. Smiley   

    Hmmmmm...I did not know this. Gouging and manipulations? I would like to know more. Tell me the facts which back up what you say.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2013, 12:31:39 AM »

If you genuinely want to learn a little something about how markets and capitalism are manipulated then you might want to read this piece.   

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation

The Senator points to several facts if you're really looking for facts.
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Joe D
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2013, 12:41:06 AM »

Well, as for gouging, a couple of days before Memorial weekend the prices here had got down to $3.12 for ethanol gas, That week end it was 3.32/3.36 per gal, and a few days after it was back 3.14.  Sorry for those of you that pay more than we do, and wish we didn't pay as much either.
When you make as much profit as the oil companies make, Congress will never agree that they are gouging tho.  That kind of money can grease a lot of palms.



Joe
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2013, 01:14:54 AM »

Quote
We have very few ozone alert days here.  It usually doesn’t get that hot and the climate and geography is such that the wind blows our ozone to Canada and Pennsylvania. Smiley   



RC answered your question about the market.  the price is not set based on what we produce or not. the price based on the globla market and as long as countries like india and china are expanding and using oil to do it, the cost can't come down.  now...if we drilled here and kept what we drilled here, that might be different, but that won't happen because these oil companies do not confine their work to this country.

now the issue of the gas mixes and refineries  has nothing to do with what happens in your state.  there simply are not enough of them to easily meet the need of all states and their different demands.  if there were only one summer and one winter mix, that would make things so much easier and not tie up refineries doing special blends for each state OR if there were more refineries....but getting them approved is near impossible.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=10&t=10

here's how much you pay in taxes for your gallons of gas...speaking of price gouging.  the governments profit margin on fuel is far higher than the oil and gas co.  how can they justify that?  they didn't earn it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2013, 01:16:36 AM »

If you genuinely want to learn a little something about how markets and capitalism are manipulated then you might want to read this piece.   

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation

The Senator points to several facts if you're really looking for facts.



There is no 'speculation for michigan gas prices'.....thats silly..... If you want to try to blame that for average price of gas then whatever...it is still bull, but it obviously doesn't apply to michigan prices as a specific.  futures contracts are made by speculation, true but when those speculations are off, then those who speculate to high and get caught by it lose lots of money...the speculation does effect the price but it doesn't make the price. and amazing how this happens right AFTER a election, when we have years before the next election and americans memory lasts about 10 minutes.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2013, 02:38:16 AM »

Agreed, the speculators didn’t affect Michigan specific gas prices.  Fox Creek seemed to doubt that markets are manipulated in general though and hence my link on speculation.  Speculation drives a lot of bubbles, this is basic fact for anybody who trades the markets.   
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BlueBee
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2013, 02:50:11 AM »

RC answered your question about the market. 
Not really.  The price of oil is not set by some mythical "world market", it is set buy US based future exchanges.  Some real end users and a LOT of Wall Street Speculators.   

OK, I do agree that Obama needs to allow more refineries.

I haven't kept up with all the summer mixes, but I thought most of the country uses a common summer mix UNLESS you're are in CA or MA, RI, CT, NY.

I also agree that government takes way too much tax at the pump.  Wasn't that all suppose to be for road repairs?
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Moots
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2013, 08:08:16 AM »

Blue,
I'm sure it was an honest oversight on your part.   Wink
But you managed to skip right over my point that the Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu, appointed by BO and who served for 4 years, up until last month...Publicly stated that the country needed higher gas prices. much like Europe.
So when you go fill up your vehicle, just smile and enjoy it. Think of it as your hero Obama getting things done.  Smiley
Besides, with the doubling of your wealth, thanks to the S&P 500, paying for it should be no problem.  grin
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doug494
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2013, 10:34:33 AM »

Gas prices are high because they can be high.  Through the mountains of regulations and restrictions, we now have government sponsored monopolies.  This is not free market economics at work.  This is quasi-nationalized industry, insulated from normal market corrections.

Honestly, what industry in their right mind would build a pipeline across the nation if the could build a refinery closer to the source?

Obviously one that cannot feasibly build a refinery and can force the approval for the pipe.  All due to governmental policies.
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 12:07:05 PM »

Gas prices are high because they can be high.  Through the mountains of regulations and restrictions, we now have government sponsored monopolies.  This is not free market economics at work.  This is quasi-nationalized industry, insulated from normal market corrections.

Honestly, what industry in their right mind would build a pipeline across the nation if the could build a refinery closer to the source?

Obviously one that cannot feasibly build a refinery and can force the approval for the pipe.  All due to governmental policies.

    Well said !

    Bluebee. When you pull up to the pump and see high prices,  Bluebee thinks, " darn oil companies are gouging! I'm angry! evil oil! friggin conservatives!"

    When I pull up to the pumps, I think, " darn regulations, restrictions and bloody taxes! Friggin liberal government!"   
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buzzbee
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 01:53:21 PM »

I wonder why no outrage paying a dollar for 12 oz of generic water and much more for"branded" water?     Smiley
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sterling
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2013, 06:27:48 PM »

Elections have consequences. High gas prices is just one small one.
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2013, 11:07:31 PM »

I wonder why no outrage paying a dollar for 12 oz of generic water and much more for"branded" water?     Smiley

No one 'needs' to buy bottles of water (so far) to be effective in the world. it is a choice if they do or do not....it is freedom to allow them to if they wish and people to supply it if they do wish. totally different imo...though I see what you are attempting to say, and do not disagree.
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 11:09:52 PM »

Elections have consequences. High gas prices is just one small one.

and by small you surely mean compared to all the other colossal things done and being done in comparison......but still not really small at all.
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kingbee
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2013, 08:17:37 AM »

... 
If you genuinely want to learn a little something about how markets... are manipulated then you might want to read this piece.   

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation


omg Blue, you left out the fact that Senator Sanders is a SELF described Marxist.  We had this lesson earlier and we all agreed that Marxist believe that any lie or crime is good as long as it furthers the overall goal of advancing Marxist Socialism.

Here is your President promising to raise energy prices before the fact. 

Obama: My Plan Makes Electricity Rates Skyrocket


Above is your President's Energy Secretary after the fact saying that gas prices are to LOW.  Who are you waiting on Blue?  Goldilocks so she can set gas prices just right?
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kingbee
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 11:43:51 AM »

....
the paychecks the drillers get make the UAW look like a bunch of paupers!

Quote
No... the paychecks oil field workers deposit ...and the amount of time [in which] rough necks preform ...this work, ...make the UAW look like a bunch of paralytic narcoleptics by comparison.

Quote
...as a percentage basis, oil profits are fairly low....liberals seem to just want to look at the profit number itself...

The last quotation is an accurate assessment.  However the reasons for its accurate went unsaid.  This is the reason.  Liberals for the most part are opposed to any profit, of any type, from any work or endeavor, at anytime, going to anyone, with the possible exception of the soft porn flicks made in Hollywood.  In this case liberals want the Federal and State Governments to step in, fund, buy, distribute, and produce these soft porn films so that the local boards of education can be more easily forced to screen these soft porn movies to little school kids, CUT & PRINT!
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sterling
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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2013, 06:40:19 PM »

Elections have consequences. High gas prices is just one small one.

and by small you surely mean compared to all the other colossal things done and being done in comparison......but still not really small at all.
By small I mean only a little part of a big picture of troubled economic times. I have heavy equipment that has to have fuel to work and the price of off road fuel is $3.699 on good days some days more. Each piece can burn around 60 gallons a day. That cuts into the profits big.
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Geoff
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2013, 08:13:56 PM »

  Well folks you are lucky, Downunder with currency  conversions we are paying the equivalent of $5.80 US a gallon.
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iddee
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« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2013, 08:48:36 PM »

Geoff, how about taking the O'bummer down there. He would be happy with those prices and we could go back to the old prices here.
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« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2013, 12:45:12 PM »


I wonder why no outrage paying a dollar for 12 oz of generic water and much

more for "branded" water?     


The answer is simple my dear buzzbee.  The Hippy Dippy liberals have convinced our fellow countrymen (especially those with low IQs) that the all powerful, price gouging, multinational, big oil, big chemical, big agricultural, big pharmacy, big energy, not to mention the big defense corporations have poisoned every last  drop of drinking water on Earth  Wink and if we are so foolish as to take even one tiny tinny little sip of this grossly contaminated tap water then all of our babies will be born naked as a Jay Bird.  Buzzy, if Blue Bee has any children I'll bet you a Dollar against a donut that Blue will back me up on this.  Well what about it Blue?  Were you children all born naked?    grin  or were they born wearing an Egal or a Hijab? 

My favorite brand of bottled water was the EVIAN brand.  Before they took it off the shelves I use to get many hours of pleasure by standing in the beverage isle at the Wall-Mart or the Pubic hairs store and pointing out to everyone who came by that the word EVIAN on the label was NAIVE spelled backwards.   lau evil
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kingbee
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« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2013, 04:47:49 PM »

There’s always some excuse for high gas prices ...It usually seems more like
...manipulation than a real supply vs demand problem....

Michigan doesn’t have/need a special summer blend beyond the normal national

summer gas formulation...    



Hold on a minute there Blue.  Michigan has 12 separate fuel formulation zones and each zone may have 12 or more different fuel formulas for each grade of gasoline.  Gasoline formulations are no longer based on the old easy winter easy summer cold or hot start thing left over from the Model T or Muscle Car days.  Now a day your air quality plus the pollution from Illinois Wisconsin Canada etc has more to do with which fuel Obama will allow you to buy and burn than the season of the year.  From May through August there are at least 3 separate formulas in some zones of Michigan, only 1 in others, and I still don't have a full years data since I strongly suspect that the EPA only provides this information to the refinery at the last possible minute in order to cause the gasoline buying public as much heart ache and head aches as humanely possible. 

BTW Blue, just how many oil refineries do you folks up there in Michigan currently have?  Never mind, you only have one small one in Detroit compared to 29 in Texas, and like everything else in Texas most of the Lone Star oil refineries makes the little Marathon refinery in Detroit look like Snuffy Smith's Moonshine still.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/volatility/standards.htm

Don't sweat the small stuff buddy, just bend them over then gouge and squeeze more rent money out of your tenants.  Isn't that how you say that the oil companies do it?  tongue Sad
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RC
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2013, 09:27:36 PM »

kingbee, you tickle the crap outta me!
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BlueBee
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2013, 11:03:17 PM »

As I said, I haven't kept up with the fuel formulations.  However if I read your little chart it looks like the entire state of Michigan would be covered ALL summer with 7.0 vapor pressure fuel.  It's pretty silly to believe they would mix up 12 or more formulations when 1 would do. 

BTW…. How many refineries do y'all have in Tennessee. lau
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2013, 11:04:29 PM »

Gasoline was $4.24 yesterday.  If iddee is buying it for $3.23 in dixie, I believe that comes out to a difference of $1.01 cents.  Maybe you and iddee could fill up a tanker, drive it up here, and vacation on all the profit you would make?  Just be careful driving on I696, it’s like the autobahn here... and... it is named after one of your heros:  Walter Reuther.  lau
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2013, 11:09:22 PM »

Quote
It's pretty silly to believe they would mix up 12 or more formulations when 1 would do.


they are not making just for themselves.  there are not enough refineries for each state to have them dedicated to their own needs.

 http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm

this chart gives you the number of refineries and the stuff they are making. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2013, 10:15:05 PM »

....

"...I thought most of the country uses a common summer mix"


In that case my friend your thought-er is on the Fritz.

The state of Michigan has 12 separate fuel mixture zones and each zone has a separate fuel formula set according to past air quality, fuel usage, weather patterns, as well as those of your neighbors.  Further more each fuel zone is subdivided into at least 12 one month segments.  For the months of May June July and August Detroit alone has 3 separate formulations.  I am unsure of the number of fuel formulas but it would not surprise me if there were dozens of different formulas.  Late Vegas odds maker Jimmy the Greek could not keep up with all the possible fuel combinations for just Michigan if he had an army of CPAs from the EPA all equipped with abacuses.

Like most left wing ideas, the outdated idea that there is a single gasoline formula for winter and a different gasoline formula for summer is as outdated as the horseless carriage. 
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