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Author Topic: Need experinced answers only.  (Read 1730 times)
don2
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« on: June 07, 2013, 04:36:30 PM »

What are the chances of getting a gentle offspring from an aggressive colony by using eggs/brood from that colony for rearing a queen?
I would like to have some of the traits this colony has "with out" the aggressiveness. Smiley d2
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bailey
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 05:07:20 PM »

You can try but it's a crap shoot. Genes don't like to follow what man wants without difficulties. 
Some will be good.  Others will be evil like momma
Bailey
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 06:45:06 PM »

What are the chances of getting a gentle offspring from an aggressive colony by using eggs/brood from that colony for rearing a queen?
I would like to have some of the traits this colony has "with out" the aggressiveness. Smiley d2

Wow! Smiley  Pretty sure I don't meet the stated prerequisite of "experienced answers only". But what the heck, I'll give it a shot anyway. Besides, this question strikes me as a big juicy softball right over the middle of the plate.

I'd say somewhere between slime and none based on everything I've heard and read.

Just curious, what favorable traits were you hoping to hold on to.   I get the impression in general that aggressive hives tend to be strong honey producers...there in lies the dilemma.  Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 10:48:08 PM »

As with most things, the answer is going to be a big 'It Depends'.

If the queen is accepted then fine. but it things are to far out of whack, she will be rejected and killed outright by the bees themselves, and they will then raise their own queen. I'd always start her in a cage so they cannot kill her, frankly, but that still isn't a guarantee. and you also still do not know what the new queen will offer either. but they have attempted to put regular queens into say a AHB hive...and they just slaughter her and requeen themselves.

but if she is accepted, then in 6-7 weeks it's going to be pretty much her DNA in the hive, and then you still have to go by the nature vs nurture aspect...ie if the hive has a lot of robbing, or aggression towards it, is in a bad location with a branch beating up against it in the wind, maybe, then they will come out how they come out, I suppose.
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don2
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »

Why would they not accept the queen?

Let me rephrase the ?

What are the chances of getting a gentle colony from an aggressive colony if I find the old queen and kill her? they will rear another queen, right? then why would they not accept her? If this happened then the colony is doom, if they keep rejecting the queen they reared their selves.  Smiley d2
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Vance G
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2013, 11:19:51 PM »

I believe he was talking about requeening with milder genetics and having acceptance problems.  Killing the old queen and letting them raise a new one will result in a brood break which is good to control mites and it is a total crapshoot what you will get but the odds are you will crap out and get a younger version of what you have. 

It also depends on the disposition of the drone father of that particular egg but, the semen being used is already resulting in evil bees.  Seems to me it gets used in bunches from the same drone and that augers for another defensive tending queen.   Lots of great lines of bees that aren't mean.  Maybe you need a change.
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Tim Bates
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 11:25:07 PM »

The odds I don't know but I have a hot hive we call the spawn of satan hive, I split this hive last year and split the split again this year if that makes sense, they both raised their own queen and seem to be far less aggressive than the original hive. I still suit up though I don't likes the stings.
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don2
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 11:38:19 PM »

I just bought a nuc of gentle strand. I have got to disassemble the aggressive colony anyhow. I can just take some brood from this new hive, after I find the queen and get rid of her. go in 9 days later and tear our any cells they make. What I plan to do is to break it down to 4 separate boxes. then use an empty box on top of another box with frames with an excluder on it. I use the fume board with Bee-Go, that is how I found queens before. Might as well destroy the eggs and young larvae that is not capped at that time then that eliminate the 9 day cell search. Then I put in a frame of eggs/brood from my gentle colony. There is enough bees in the mean colony to make two colonies of two boxes each My 5 frame nuc is about to start on its second 10 frame box, actually had about 7 frames drawn out in it as of this past Monday. I will keep y'all posted on how it works out. Thanks for the input.  :)d2

And while I was typing, Tim Bates said he went where I was talking about going at the beginning d2
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 10:54:29 AM »

The odds are not as good as raising a queen from gentle stock.  I would only attempt it if I was attached to the genetics of that hive.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 10:48:27 PM »

I believe he was talking about requeening with milder genetics and having acceptance problems. 

yep. thats what I was saying.
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don2
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2013, 06:20:26 PM »

No, I was not talking about re queening from gentler stock. Read it again. I said, Find the old queen, kill her, let them raise new queens. Then do it again and again. After the third or fourth time if they don't improve on gentleness then re queen with other stock.  On the other hand I would not try to re queen this hive. I would give them a frame of eggs and brood from gentle stock,  "after" I made sure they had no queen or queen cells. Why would they reject a queen they reared? they could supersede her, but that would still give them a queen from the gentle stock.  :)d2
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 09:25:40 PM »

Don

Here is my suggestion from what I have done. the aggressive hive will start a new Queen so she will reject all drones from the originating hive. So to get the traits of the docile hive you need to make sure you have enough drones from the docile hive to mate with her.but take into consideration any feral hives in the area that may mate with her also. So go for isolating the two hives as best as possible to get the generics of the good hive mixed with the new Queen. don't use eggs from the good hive. she will reject semen from those drones.

John.

P,S. is the range open this weekend? my wife wants to pratice with her 38 and I need to re-site my 45 and carbine.
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don2
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 09:47:27 PM »

I thought I would try one or two times from the aggressive hive and if they didn't settle down I would go with another colony. I am not going to do anything with it this year because of my back and the heat. If it makes it through the winter I plan on hitting it around the third week in march. Hopefully I will have two or three colonies from my new bees come spring.

The range will be open tomorrow, Sat. and Sunday. I will be there tomorrow from 10 am till 6 pm. I was open today and had only one shooter. My Son will have it Sat. and Sun. Every day is 10 am till 6 pm Thursday through Sunday. Closed M,T, & W. Do you know how to get there?  :)d2
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »

ya, I know, I misunderstood what you were originally saying, but that is what I was saying. sorry. Sad

genetics will change everytime a queen goes out on a mating flight more than likely, unless it is by artificial insemination, or controlled conditions.
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