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Author Topic: Plastic duragilt, Wedged Frames  (Read 2765 times)
Shizzell
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« on: January 02, 2006, 10:02:34 AM »

Another question,

Grooved Frames are for duragilt correct? and wedged is used for?? Also, I used wedged frames with my duragilt and it seems like it works fine. Anything that i might have to worry about?
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bassman1977
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2006, 11:20:53 AM »

The grooved frames are for the plastic or duraguilt foundations, but I've mixed and matched between frame and foundation types with no problem.  I am going to use wedge when I do my small cell hives this year.
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Shizzell
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2006, 11:23:03 AM »

Thanks a lot (Phew)

Happy Beekeeping
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 01:07:39 PM »

I use whatever frames I have around.  But when I buy them I buy them either ungrooved top and bottom and cut a comb guide on the top or buy them grooved on the top and solid on the botom or, if that's not available grooved top and bottom.  I find it to be much quicker and more reliable, less work and less time, to use a wax tube fastener to wax the foundation in than to nail it in.  The cleats often pull out and the foundation often falls out of the cleats.  More often than it falls out when waxed in the groove.  But both will fall over time.

Any of them work.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 01:12:34 PM »

All the time I had DuraComb (like duragilt without the metal edges) I used split bottoms and wedge tops.  But I'd just as soon use the grooved.  The grooved also work best for sheets of any kind of plastic.  Just pop them in.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Davzbeez
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2006, 07:25:30 PM »

Michael,

Do you use the same procedure for inserting SC cut in half into medium frames?  

And could you please describe the process of using a wax tube?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 10:51:47 PM »

>Do you use the same procedure for inserting SC cut in half into medium frames?

If you mean the wax tube fastner, yes.  If I have a grooved top.  And I try to buy them grooved.  That's not to say I don't have lots of wedge top bars too.  If it's a used wedge top bar, I try to get a wedge from a different top bar and use that so the nails won't line up with the old holes.

>And could you please describe the process of using a wax tube?

A wax tube fastener works just like picking up soda with a straw and your finger.  You melt some wax and put the wax tube fastener in until it gets up to temperature.  When the wax flows in and out when you dip it then you dip it and put your finger over the hole and put the tip over where you want the wax.  When you let your finger up and let the air in, the wax flows out.  You run a bead of wax down into the groove from each side of the foundation.  It's like a wax glue gun.  If you set up a bunch of frames ready to go you can wax one after another much more quickly than you can nail wedges.


http://www.dadant.com/catalog/images/M00778m.jpg
http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=102
http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=231&osCsid=e97ca682916d2a2e6879e0ddc16e9733
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Shizzell
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 10:55:30 PM »

Quote
If you set up a bunch of frames ready to go you can wax one after another much more quickly than you can nail wedges.


Not so sure about that... I personally have a air nail gun so it actually takes around 10 seconds to do one frame, and I find it nice and sturdy. However, that does sound like a good idea if one has no air gun, or any air to run the air gun...  cheesy
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2006, 07:20:03 AM »

It only takes a couple of seconds to wax a foundation in.  It takes me longer than that to line up a brad nailer to nail the wedge in without splitting everyting out.  And the foundation slips out from behind the wedge more often than it comes out when waxed in.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
taw
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2006, 10:31:33 PM »

Quote from: Michael Bush
It only takes a couple of seconds to wax a foundation in.  It takes me longer than that to line up a brad nailer to nail the wedge in without splitting everyting out.  And the foundation slips out from behind the wedge more often than it comes out when waxed in.


I'm a hobbiest...

The thing that really annoys me about top-bar wedges is the work required to break them out and at least remedially clean up the bar and wedge. I still can't do this with much grace or speed.

I watched JzBz's year of beekeeping video once. They slap the foudation in grooved top and bottom bars and let the bees attach the foundation. I am thinking about experimenting with that. Dunno. Regardless, I despise the foundation adding process.

-todd
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2006, 01:00:01 PM »

>The thing that really annoys me about top-bar wedges is the work required to break them out and at least remedially clean up the bar and wedge. I still can't do this with much grace or speed.

Neither can anyone else.  Smiley  That's why the wax tube fastener is so nice.

>I watched JzBz's year of beekeeping video once. They slap the foudation in grooved top and bottom bars and let the bees attach the foundation. I am thinking about experimenting with that.

If you put it directly in the hive in a flow and they draw it that day, it works fine.  If it's plastic, of course, it works fine, to just put it in.

>I despise the foundation adding process.

It is one of those things that are a pain.  To me the whole issue of wires, pins etc. comes down to how soon the bees are doing to process it.  It's very frustrating to spend hours putting in the foundation and find it's all crumpled and fallen out by the time you get it on the hive.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
bassman1977
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2006, 05:40:04 PM »

Michael, where can this wax tube fastener be bought?  I can't seem to find it on the bigger sites.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2006, 06:52:59 PM »

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=231&osCsid=ed2ac34c753ac505c62ec7874f1cab9a


Or Walter T. Kelley cat no 165 Wax Tube Fastener.  I doesn't appear to be in their online catalog but I've been buying them from Walter Kelly for 30 years.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
bassman1977
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2006, 07:21:17 PM »

Thanks Michael.  Wow did I over-look it when I was on that site.
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taw
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2006, 01:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Michael Bush
I use whatever frames I have around.  But when I buy them I buy them either ungrooved top and bottom and cut a comb guide on the top or buy them grooved on the top and solid on the botom or, if that's not available grooved top and bottom.  I find it to be much quicker and more reliable, less work and less time, to use a wax tube fastener to wax the foundation in than to nail it in.  The cleats often pull out and the foundation often falls out of the cleats.  More often than it falls out when waxed in the groove.  But both will fall over time.

Any of them work.


Hey Michael,

How do you heat your wax? Double boiler? Hot pad? Crock pot? I have been toying with using your method, at least experimenting with it. I don't currently have a max melting process. This will be my second year, and I have merely been accumulating wax. I have yet to process any. I plan to put together a solar wax melter for general bulk processing, but for wax tube fastener use, I will need something else. So... what do you suggest?

-todd
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2006, 07:01:43 PM »

>How do you heat your wax? Double boiler? Hot pad? Crock pot?

I put a tin soup can with wax in a small sauce pan of boiling water.

Careful not to put too much water.  You don't want the can to tip over.

Careful not to run out of water.  You don't want to start a fire.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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