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Author Topic: combining orig hive deep w/med to a 2 med swarm capture  (Read 367 times)
ChrisT
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Location: Atlanta, GA


« on: June 05, 2013, 03:57:17 PM »

My original hive swarmed and I caught it.
It finally mated and started laying. She is big and beautiful.

My original hive (where the swarm came from) was left queenless somehow. no eggs or larvae for 2 weeks now.
They still have capped worker brood although it is dwindling by the day.

I want to combine the old hive to the new hive (the swarm capture) since I cant buy any new queen and I fear time is running out before laying workers show up.

The old hive is a deep with a medium and the new hive is 2 mediums.
The old hive top medium is all honey and almost 75% full.

The bottom medium on the new hive is obviously the brood nest.
The new hive top medium is all honey and almost 75% full.

The bottom deep on the old hive has the spotty brood areas (still hatching) and then the rest of the space they have been filling with honey but they are leaving certain sections open (i guess waiting for a queen) but that empty space keeps getting smaller and smaller as the days go by (they are turing the empty spaces into honey stores).

The advice i need is how to stack this combination...
I was thinking:
1) new hive brood medium on bottom, then the deep from the old hive and then the 2 medium honey stores on top.
This is with no newspaper since they are related hives.
OR...
2) just stick the old hive deep and medium on top of the new hive (2 mediums) with newspaper between?

Is this how others would combine the 2? I was thinking #1 because teh 2 brood chambers would be near other and the honey stores would be on top as normal but it doesnt allow for the newspaper layer of protection so much.

Thanks for any advice

Chris
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WarPonyFarms
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Location: Kennewick, WA


« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 06:54:24 PM »

Your hives have been separated long enough they won't recognize each other as relation.  As a result, combining with newspaper is advisable however you choose to stack them.

Another option, since you don't want to purchase a queen, is to give them a frame of brood from the new hive and let them raise their own.  They will probably raise a new queen better than the one you could buy.

You're way safer running Two hives than one for this type of instance.  

Best of luck
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ChrisT
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Location: Atlanta, GA


« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »

Thanks.

I will use newspaper. Thanks. Didnt knwo they could fall out of relation. I dont want to give any brood from the new hive bc they barely have any to spare. remember she is just ramping up and has a lot of larvae and maybe 1 side of medium frame of capped worker brood.
Plus, it would be giving a medium to a deep.. i dont want to have to deal with extra comb etc...

Im just not sure what is the "best" way to do this. I know buying a queen or giving brood is the best im just so afraid to give up any brood from the new hive. I really feel more comfortable with combining. Im already at stress level 7 with this event from swarming to a queenless main hive. I feel combinig is simpler, "for me", and need to know the order of boxes when combining

Thanks
Chris
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WarPonyFarms
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Location: Kennewick, WA


« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 01:06:47 PM »

The new hive has little invested into eggs.  If you can find a frame with little brood and some eggs just switch it out with one of the old hives mediums.  Placement in the hive at that point (Brood box or Super) isn't a big deal because they will be happy to get something to work with so pull a frame from the center of hive 1's super and replace it with a frame with eggs. they will handle the rest. By the time your new queen is mated, the bees will have replaced the brood with honey so she will begin to lay in the deep.

There are different ways to do a combine.  Depending on equipment availability and experience.
 
It's much easier to control one thing at a time while you are learning.
 
The easiest is to do a newspaper combine, queenless on top.  KIS.
A few days later, switch the boxes to where you want them.  Put the deep on bottom with the new hive on top of it, then the super.  The bees will adjust it how they want it.

The old hive may be waiting a virgin to mate and start laying so make sure they are queenless before you combine.

Good luck
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ChrisT
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Location: Atlanta, GA


« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 02:13:29 PM »

Thanks. I didnt think about swiching the order of the boxes after a week or so.
That sounds reasonable and logical.

I am aware that the old hive may have raised a virgin by now but I cant find one for the life of me.

I, unfortunately, tore off all the queen cells a couple weeks ago after they swarmed for fear of them swarming again (this was a beginners mistake yes, but i did it)

Then when I realized what i had done, I waited for a week to see what they would do, make more or what.
Sure enough they made more and I saw them a week ago. But now, 4 days after that inspection, they are all gone. The bees tore them down. How could they have raised a queen in a week and 4 days?

I am just so perplexed and confused. Thats why I just wanted to make this simple. They seem to be doing strange stuff on their own. How did they raise new queen cells when there were seemingly no eggs? and why when they built those new ones did they tear them down 11 days (or less) later? None of this seems to be going by the instruction manual (sarcasm).

I realy appreciate your help. I will wait for maybe 7 more days to see if a virgin was hatched. There is still scant amounts of brood in the old hive so im getting close to worrying about laying workers once all those final brood areas hatch.


Chris







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