Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 17, 2014, 08:25:55 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Varroa Sensitive Hygiene  (Read 3135 times)
blanc
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345

Location: Reserve,Louisiana


« on: May 22, 2013, 08:51:33 AM »

 While inspecting one of my nucs this week I noticed a lot of partially uncapped brood cells and going to the info on the internet I came across VSH info and was surprised to discover that they have been breeding these traits in bees to combat mites and other diseases in bees without affecting honey production. My hive has all the characteristics of it and my be a plus if I can raise some queens and re queen all my other hives.

Blanc
Logged

Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1570

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 09:11:08 AM »

what was the condition of the partially uncapped brood?  chewed, brown, sunken caps is also a sign of afb. 
Logged
AllenF
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8186

Location: Hiram, Georgia


« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 09:24:11 AM »

Just how many or what percentage of the cells are uncapped?   Throw up a pic or two of the brood. 
Logged
blanc
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345

Location: Reserve,Louisiana


« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 10:38:16 AM »

No sunken and appeared reopened brood and brood pattern looked fine from first look and was about 15 % open. That is what led me to search for answers. Will try for pics when weather permits for next inspection. Pictures that I saw are similar to VSH as they will open and pull larva from affected areas. Plausible ?
I am not that qualified to say so thanks for all your input.
Blanc
Logged

Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 12:20:17 PM »

Blanc.
That's why I am a treatment free apiary.  If I don't treat and let all hives live or die on their own then the only thing left will be the ones that resist the mites and other cooties that kill them.

I'm assuming the nuc in question is from me.
And yes.  Breed queens from them as the trait does seem to be passed on.

Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 05:29:57 PM »

.
Anti varroa hygienic hives make clearly lower honey yields. -50% is typical number.
Bees kill infectected brood and that is whycolony is smaller than chemically treated.

If facts are not so, why so few use varroa tolerant bees?

Advertising is strong on this are and promises more than give.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 05:47:14 PM »

Really fin?   
I get 150 to 200 lbs of honey per good hive each summer.  And almost as much in fall. 
Guess I could do better with non resistant bees.
Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
blanc
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345

Location: Reserve,Louisiana


« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »

Blanc.
That's why I am a treatment free apiary.  If I don't treat and let all hives live or die on their own then the only thing left will be the ones that resist the mites and other cooties that kill them.

I'm assuming the nuc in question is from me.
And yes.  Breed queens from them as the trait does seem to be passed on.

Bailey
All indications is the honey yeilds are high from these bees so I will raise some queens from them. I noticed the only hive I have from the nucs that is slow building is the one for my buddy with screened bottom. Just an observation I made watching them other than that doing fine.
Blanc
Logged

Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 07:16:06 PM »

With the recent cool periods I would expect thet with a screened bottom
Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
melliferal
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 85


Location: Central Louisiana

@Checkmite


« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 08:37:23 PM »

I imagine that some VSH might well be less productive to start with.  But, allow them to join the larger breeding population and some good things may happen.
Logged

Recently moved; re-keeping in 2014.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 02:18:19 AM »

Really fin?  
I get 150 to 200 lbs of honey per good hive each summer.  And almost as much in fall.  
Guess I could do better with non resistant bees.
Bailey

read researches.

If treatment free bees are as good,
- why USA has big problems with varroa?
-  why Canada has not at all varroa tolerant bee strains?

80% of beekeepers in Canada are professionals. Why they do not use them

many in France say that they have treatment free bees. It 2 y old research and it said that yield  is 50% smaller.

Russian bee was tested long time ago in Europe and result was that it is not varroa tolerant and its  yield is poor.

There are fresh conclusions from Europe that varroa tolerant strains have poor yield because colonies are small.

 Information about these things is very confusing. Individual beekeepers say that  it is fine but university reseach is oddly quiet. What is that?

.
.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 06:05:15 AM by Finski » Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Nature Coast Beek
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 124


Location: Florida, Nature Coast

Suck it up, buttercup!


WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 06:50:43 AM »

Good explanation of VSH trait.
Logged

Arkwood
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 76

Location: N.E. Florida


« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 08:59:38 AM »

Money is 99.5 % (My statistic from being on this Earth for 40 years) why things get done or don't get done. I would love to order a VSH Queen from a company I see on the Internet but for $225.00 I can see why not many are willing to move towards an ALL VSH Apiary so fast and on the other hand, how many people are willing to lose thousands of hives like Bee Weaver did (According to their website)?

I'm sure man can find a way to breed a VSH strain that also keeps up with honey production, time and money.

Just my 2 cents. I could be way off in my thinking.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 10:20:27 AM by Arkwood » Logged

What are words for, when no one listens anymore.
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 01:01:43 PM »

All I know is that my bees do well without chem treatments
And produce more honey than the store bought bees that
Work in this area. 

Finn. 
Can't speak for Europe or Canada or any other place
You mentioned and be accurate.  ( since I'm not there)

Somehow I don't think the info from other countries
And colder climates will translate to my area.   
But since I'm not a pro like some others I will take my
Little treatment free bees and work them as I know how.

All that us unknowing beeks can do.  Wink
Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 02:49:56 PM »

Bailey,
Thanks for the breeding efforts.
I read the Baton Rouge Experiment station report,
http://www.extension.org/pages/30984/selecting-for-varroa-sensitive-hygiene

I note they have a simple protocol of introducing a 1/2 frame of young capped brood that is highly infested, waiting 24 hours and counting the number of cells that have been opened to evaluate strength of the VSH response in a colony.

Have you tried that to estimate VSH value, or is it a live-and-let-die trial.

I work with plant genetics, and I have resisted the live-and-let-die approach because the gene flow math is poor.  That is to say there is so much noise in the selection, and outside drone fertilization, that the drift to a resistant strain is going to be agonizingly slow.

The Baton Rouge test for VSH behavior seems possible to administer by laymen, and could be used to cull poor and select only the best hives early, much improving the gene selection math.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2013, 03:24:21 PM »

Finn. 
Can't speak for Europe or Canada or any other place
You mentioned and be accurate.  ( since I'm not there)


i bought mite resistant queens several years ago but they had as much mites as others.

You may find "varroa  resistant honey bee europe" fromgoogle.

Many  countries in Europe have private or public breeding programs of varroa resistant bees.
It depends who writes them.

In Sweden Gotland there are bees which are quite resistnt but they do not show hygienic actions. They do not open brood cappings. Somehow production of mites is supressed.

Kefys bee in Fance is said to be very tolerant but the bee is very aggressive. So told the guy who had those bees. Impossible to nurse them he said.


Thereare views and views. I am not going to spend my life with mite not more than now.
It must be someting better do.  but I do not believe these things what guys write here.  90% is nonsense.

.
.


Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 06:48:58 PM »

Well fin
if we're all spouting nonsense why do you bother to read it? 
 Or even bother being here?

I do what works for me. I'm not saying its all correct but it works and my bees do perform quite well.
( my clients say so)

Does that give me the right to say your full of s##t ?    I think not.
Or the right to say your knowledge is nonsense?  I think not.  I try to give honest answers and pass on what I see. Folks can use it or not. ( up to them). 

 But I truly grow tired of the " professionals" deciding we're doing it wrong. Then talking to average MEN like they are idiots.   
We're not children and continuing to treat good people like they are stupid is not good manners.

I don't know why my mite counts are low but since I did participate in the national honey bee survey for the past 2 years and can document low mite loads I guess I'm not so full of nonsense as you imply.

I don't say my bees are VHS.  I just know that since I went foundationless and treatment free so the non resistant stock will die off my hives do great.   Low mite load. Low deformed wing virus counts. Great production and very low winter losses.  All without putting poison in my hives. 

How about you do things your way in your cold temps and let us in the sub tropics do things our way without all of this acting like your some kind of bee god?
It gets old and irritating!!!
Bailey.
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2013, 06:52:59 PM »

Chestnut.

It's a live or die thing here.  I only breed from the bees that survive their first year in the isolation yard with no help other than supering.

It may not be the most direct way but so far it works. 

I also believe since I don't have ANY store bought bees in my program( all survivor stock) that I have the advantage of starting with resistant stock to begin with and I'm only weeding out the ones that are the least resistant.
Bailey

Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2013, 09:11:43 PM »

Bailey,
Let say thank you again for taking the risk on the treatment-free protocol.  It will pay-off for everyone, as you develop a resistant-survivor brood-stock. I am glad you have an isolation area.
Logged
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2013, 09:23:27 PM »

It's really just my way of getting the best bees I can get.
I'm the only beek in my city and there aren't many bees here other than the wild  survivor stock.
It works out pretty well for me and those who buy my bees.
It's not a real risk to go foundationless.  Just a bit of extra work.  As far as treatment free , well since I drink 2 pots of coffee daily and I use honey in my coffee I don't want mite treatment chems to build up in me.  Wink
Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2013, 02:51:59 AM »

.
All those stuff about foundationless beekeeping. It is not my case..


Bailey, how mani months you have yield period. i have 4-5 weeks.

.
.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 03:04:59 AM by Finski » Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
melliferal
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 85


Location: Central Louisiana

@Checkmite


« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2013, 09:06:11 AM »

I'm with you on foundationless, Finski.

As to VSH bees, I don't tend to consider them necessarily "treatment free".  Some will doubtless treat them that way; but contrarily I tend to think that VSH provides us more with bees that self-test for varroa.  No more need to do sugar rolls or alcohol samples; just look to see if the bees are opening capped brood and then you know by the percentage of uncapped brood how bad the infestation is.  And at a certain threshold, if it is your method, you can apply some kind of control of your choice. 

I'm particularly interested in how VSH bees might interact with drone frames.  Usually with these you put them in the hive, let the queen fill it with drone brood, and then take it out to freeze and kill all the mites.  But how would VSH work with this kind of control?  Perhaps you can leave the drone frame in the hive permanently; the VSH bees will do the work of killing the mites all by themselves.  It would be fun to experiment.
Logged

Recently moved; re-keeping in 2014.
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2013, 09:39:30 AM »

Finn
Your question just made my point.  We have a very different
Seasons here.   Your cold weather methods and observations
Might not translate so well to our area. 

I get months of flow.  Both spring and fall.
To compare 4 weeks to months doesn't work.

And to say that what you read here is 90% nonsense
Doesn't work either.
 Your k owledge of cold weather bee keeping
Is superior to mine i will stipulate That.

But does that mean we warm weather beeks are stupid?
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2013, 10:01:35 AM »

Finn, Bailey
Agree to a truce.  Finn has a "Language Barrier Included" tag, and his bluntness is just the way he expresses himself.  
I've been reading Finn's posts for years, and he is fighting an often lonely battle against fanciful, wishful thinking on Varroa.

Treatment-free is a legitimate option for keepers who have unlimited ability to restock nucs, and no economic constraints on the loss of hives.  It requires an isolation yard, so gene flow is not diluted from neighbor drones.  The Buckfast traits required decades to fix into the population in their isolated inbred yard in Dartmoor, so time and space is required.    The treatment free experiments I am familiar with locally are subsidized by university programs.  So a money backstop on the losses are also useful.     Treatment-free doesn't change the genotype if you are in an area with unlimited interloper drones.  Treatment-free won't "fix" bees in a year, so you need to commit to decades of work.

I'm refreshed by Finn's bluntness, don't take it personally, and bear in mind he does have to wade through some truely magical thinking by novice know-it-all keepers.
Logged
Moots
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1460


Location: Gonzales LA (Southeastern Louisiana)


« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2013, 10:10:00 AM »

Finn, Bailey
Agree to a truce.....  

OR DON'T!...that's strictly up to the two of you.  Smiley

However, lets be honest, a little spirited back and forth is part of what makes this, and any other successful internet forum worth visiting!  grin
Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2013, 10:27:49 AM »

I'm with you on foundationless, Finski.


i thinked  over that old foundationless issue. It is too expencive treatment .

I renew 2-3 boxes combs per year and I use foundations. Langstroth box needs 10 waxsheets = 1 kg . One kg wax need 6-8 kg honey. I loose 15-20 kg honey per hive if I do not use foundations. I hive my old wax to foundation man and I pay 3.50 /kg.
15 kg honey is as money 100 euros.  

varroa treatment cost is about  1 euro per hive.

.with 20 hives I would loose 2000 euros to be "natural".

.that is 2600 US dollar ,.....to me is a big money for nothing.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1570

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2013, 10:31:45 AM »

Finn, Bailey
Agree to a truce.  Finn has a "Language Barrier Included" tag, and his bluntness is just the way he expresses himself.  
I've been reading Finn's posts for years, and he is fighting an often lonely battle against fanciful, wishful thinking on Varroa.

Treatment-free is a legitimate option for keepers who have unlimited ability to restock nucs, and no economic constraints on the loss of hives.  It requires an isolation yard, so gene flow is not diluted from neighbor drones.  The Buckfast traits required decades to fix into the population in their isolated inbred yard in Dartmoor, so time and space is required.    The treatment free experiments I am familiar with locally are subsidized by university programs.  So a money backstop on the losses are also useful.     Treatment-free doesn't change the genotype if you are in an area with unlimited interloper drones.  Treatment-free won't "fix" bees in a year, so you need to commit to decades of work.

I'm refreshed by Finn's bluntness, don't take it personally, and bear in mind he does have to wade through some truely magical thinking by novice know-it-all keepers.

if you've been reading his posts you should know that these battles erupt pretty regularly.  let them fight it out if that's what they want to do.  i read both of their posts and i agree with most of what both of them say most of the time.  i think bailey does have a point in saying that beekeeping in the south is very different than cold weather beekeeping.  i'd say beekeeping in his area is much different than beekeeping in mine.  he's on the coast and i'm on the fall line.  he has a much longer season than i do.  but i've got a couple of good 3 to 4 week flows and a lot of secondary flows in a good year.  i have yet to see a varroa on any of my bees and there are a couple of guys nearby reporting the same.  in the 90's i never saw a hive that didn't have them.  there are a lot of treatment free beekeepers that manage to get a decent honey crop.  who can say that there is a 50 percent difference?  i have hives side by side that get the same treatment (none for now) that are very different when it comes to productivity.    
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2013, 10:37:48 AM »

I let the queen fill it with drone brood, and then take it out to freeze and kill all the mites. 

to put drone cells to freezer is a bad idea. Too laborous.
I put a medium foundatin to langstrot and then 1/3 is free space to draw drone combs.
I cut off the comb when it is capped. Bees draw quickly new combs.

Drone combs catch only one week mites, just the time when bees cap the larvae.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2013, 10:45:02 AM »

I will reflect the respect I'm given.   
And I have been very polite in my responses compared to
What I wished to write. 

But I don't take kindly to being discounted.  I'm not stupid.

And as a 25 year RN I believe I understand biology, disease processes,
Genetics, experimentation processes etc. 
And when I take up any project I research it to death so I can
Do things right.

So when I'm dismissed as a nonsense spouting moron I tend to set the record
Straight.   

You will not find me discounting others here as I have seen
The other party evolve into doing over the past year or so.
So a truce?   Sure.   
Soon as I see someone stop acting as if others are not his mental equal.
We more experienced beeks are here to help the new beeks and enjoy the conversation
With good friends. Not here to be talked down to and I am not one to stand and be
Insulted without response.   

There are great people on here with loads of good info. We should treat others here as friends and family.
Look at the videos of bud 5.   That's what we should find here.
That's what I'm here for anyway.

 
As far as language barrier.  I think if you review his posts he can clearly express himself well
Enough to be hypercritical!

Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2013, 11:16:06 AM »

The mathematics of genes
A complex behavioral trait, like VSH, is the expression of dozens of genes.  It is not a single gene turned on and off. The expression likely requires "homozygous recessive" or "rr" in at least some of these genes (as the trait appears infrequently in the wild).
For example, let's say VSH is linked to 10 genes.  Mendelian ratios say the expression of VSH will be seen 1/4*1/4....*1/4 of the time or 1 in 4^10 (4 to the 10th power) --  that is 1 in 1,048,576 colonies will have the proper gene expression.  Strictly mathematically, only about 3 of all kept colonies in the US would have the right expression (using the arbitrary 10 homozygous genes as the assumption).

Inbreeding the one-in-a-million colony, could fix the trait, so daughter clones would express the VSH.  Moved out to the wild, only  1 in 2^10 (or 1024) one-in-a-thousand colonies would have the trait in the F1 (second generation) if the dominant and recessive genes were equally present in the wild population of drones.  

A complication of bee biology is the wild mating with multiple drones, VSH would need to be frequent enough among the multiple fathers to make a difference in the hive biology and survival.

Unfortunately, inbreeding to fix a trait has the deleterious effect of fixing a lot of sub-lethal bad things in the geneotype.  Think Appalachia Cousin Marriage yielding six-toed cretins.  This "inbreeding depression" is compensated for by controlled out-breeding, and reselection of the desirable expression.  -- This is why traditional breeding programs are multi-decade efforts.

Remember that orchard crops are grafted clones, this is because the F1 of these trees in an even inbred cross are a mish-mash (or back to the one-in-a-million lottery expression of taste and color).    I don't know if grafted clones of bees are possible in a lab setting (drones are haploid or 1/2 of the queen's genes, so would be a resorted mix of her pairs of chromosomes).

The F1- one-in-a-million- lottery and the inbreeding depression cost is controlled in plant breeding by hybrid selection.  In hybrids, specialized parent strains that are infertile are maintained.  The  mother cannot produce (pollen) and the father won't set seed.  Mothers can be chemically, manually, or in some cases genetically sterilized from producing pollen (aka Drones in a bee metaphor).  The father/pollen/drone strain is a separate genotype that adds back just enough other traits to compensate for the weaknesses of the mother genotype. In plants, many hybrids are F2, parents are used to produce F1, which are then crossed to a second generation with the proper combination of traits.  I realistically don't see how a hybrid selection model would work for bees as  the selection and maintenance of non-productive parent colonies seems out of reach practically.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2013, 11:18:12 AM »

.
Thanks to language barrier.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
melliferal
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 85


Location: Central Louisiana

@Checkmite


« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2013, 11:37:54 AM »


to put drone cells to freezer is a bad idea. Too laborous.
I put a medium foundatin to langstrot and then 1/3 is free space to draw drone combs.
I cut off the comb when it is capped. Bees draw quickly new combs.

Drone combs catch only one week mites, just the time when bees cap the larvae.

This is what I mean - it is a lot of work.  It's why I am interested in VSH.  The VSH trait is that the bees detect varroa nymphs in the capped brood and uncap it, pulling out and disposing of the pupa and attached mite nymphs.  If they do this on the drone frame, then it will be little or no labor for me; the bees will detect the mites, remove them, and then the queen will lay in the drone frame again immediately without having to draw any new comb.

It will not destroy all mites in any hive; but it may destroy a great many.  I'd like to experiment a bit.
Logged

Recently moved; re-keeping in 2014.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2013, 03:27:05 PM »

.
I have studied genetics in university. i know something about these things.

If I get varroa tolerant bees, I amvery pleased. but I do not know where they are so that I can trustonthem..

There is much humbug in this aea NZ qbee breeders made "break out" in the year 2007 but since then it has been silent around the project. They breed bees on Mercury Island. Origin is from Germany.


Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
melliferal
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 85


Location: Central Louisiana

@Checkmite


« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2013, 04:42:54 PM »

Yes, people have been claiming to have developed mite resistance in bees several times over the past number of years, and we should always be skeptical of any such claims.

The VSH strain in particular was not developed commercially, but by a US government laboratory dedicated to honey bee research.  The laboratory makes no claims about the bees' survivability against varroa mites; it has only described the special VSH behavior as it has been discovered observed, and releases the results of studies and experiments and its VSH program is ongoing.  It offers the queens for sale to breeders who want to participate in the breeding studies.
Logged

Recently moved; re-keeping in 2014.
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2013, 05:22:39 PM »

Finn,
That is what is cool about the Baton Rouge paper.  They have a really simple protocol (introducing infected fresh capped brood briefly) to get a quantitative estimate of VSH behavior.  The protocol could be copied by anyone, since it consists of counting cells.

You could have a hunch on VSH in one of your hives, test for it, and make nucs like crazy from the good hive.  It really opens up the possibility of pushing the breeding cycle into high gear.

.
If I get varroa tolerant bees, I am very pleased. but I do not know where they are so that I can trust on them.

Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2013, 05:33:02 PM »

Finn,

You could have a hunch on VSH in one of your hives, test for it, and make nucs like crazy from the good hive.  It really opens up the possibility of pushing the breeding cycle into high gear.

get a life!

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »


I've been reading Finn's posts for years, and he is fighting an often lonely battle against fanciful, wishful thinking on Varroa.

Treatment-free is a legitimate option for keepers who have unlimited ability to restock nucs, and no economic constraints on the los
I'm refreshed by Finn's bluntness, don't take it personally, and bear in mind he does have to wade through some truely magical thinking by novice know-it-all keepers.

i have only told, what has been researched in Europe. The work has been done by European Varro Group.
It was real researching in years  1998-2006. And you say it wishfllthinking.

10 years late Canada accepted these "wishfull thinking " as a varroa treatment concept.

And what USA did, researchers started to repeat  same researches what had allready done.
So USA comes 10 years after Europe and you are proudof it. All knowledgeis in Internet with your mother language.

i have not invented nothing of my own.

We have in Finland a guy who has breeded 10 years varroa tolerant bees. He has killed every year 100 hives for  varroa. He has used only his own money.

And I shoud sacrifice my life to those "do nothing guys".

Counting mites andloosing money what I do not have.

Get a life, donothingguys and concentrate to produce honey.
I have 25 litre formic acid and use it.
.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2013, 07:16:30 PM »

Hummm.  Get.... A.....life....Huh??

Ok.  I did that years ago. 

Fin. Your being rude and intolerant.

This is a good forum. These are great guys. They are like family to me. 

No one has personally attacked you or your knowledge.  Yet you continue to attack anyone who doesn't bow down to the Finnish bee god!!!!

Why are you doing this?   No one has attacked you.  Yet over the past year or two your attacks and better than
Everyone else attitude has grown and grown to the point that your knowledge is being overshadowed by
Your rude and intolerant rantings.   

It is not very attractive at all and personally its becoming quite annoying. 

As far as a language barrier goes you seem to understand good enough to be an insulting ass.
So I for one am done with cutting you slack on that issue.

Why don't you deal with mites and disease and bee keeping in your own way that works for you and then shut the hell up when you want to discount others who apparently seem to be doing pretty good on their own?

I'm sure I'm going to get a stern reprimand from the moderator for what I'm saying and I'm willing to be banned for a while to make the following point. 

You don't have to be an ass to have your knowledge heard!!!!!!!!!
Let people ( especially the newbees ) decide for them selves without browbeating them or the knowledge
Of others. 

Stop using the " language barrier" as an excuse for your behavior.
Or go find another place to practice you method of instruction.   

The intelligent people here can decide which method is best for them. 

Without someone kicking them to make themselves feel more important in the universe. 
You understand?? Or should I go find a translation software app for you so you can?
Language barrier ain't going to cut it any more.
Good manners are a universal thing. Not just limited to English speaking countries.
Learn some common courtesy please!!!!

Bailey

Sorry mr moderator.
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
gov1623
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 135

Location: DesAllemands LA


« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2013, 09:54:42 PM »

GO GET EM BAILEY  shocked shocked shocked!!!!!!!
Logged

Who Dat!!!
Moots
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1460


Location: Gonzales LA (Southeastern Louisiana)


« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2013, 11:36:54 PM »

GO GET EM BAILEY  shocked shocked shocked!!!!!!!

+1  grin
Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2013, 02:03:32 AM »

.
You are right Bailey.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.688 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page December 11, 2014, 10:39:11 PM