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Author Topic: Minnesota Apiary Looses 1,300+ Hives!  (Read 4736 times)
Nonprophet
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« on: May 19, 2013, 01:00:20 PM »

Still think neonicontinoids are safe?

If authenticated, this video from a large apiary (1,300+ hives) in Minnesota is going to turn up the heat exponentially on Monsanto and the EPA relative to the effects of neonicontinoids on bees and the need to immediately ban these substances as they have recently done in Europe. Please share the video far and wide--I have no doubt that efforts will be made to remove it.....

Apiary Deaths
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"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 02:50:56 PM »

I'd be interested to know if the field was sprayed with something before planting.And if the beekeeper knows they plant that field with neonic corn, why were his bees there? Was he looking for a bee kill? 
My understanding was the bees on almonds this year were not terrific as they suggest in tghe comments after the video.  This is more like a pesticide kill than a classic ccd case.
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melliferal
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 04:10:07 PM »

I agree with buzzbee; this certainly looks like a pesticide kill.  And, the neo-nic treated corn may indeed be the culprit.  But it is quite obviously not CCD.

Everyone needs to familiarize, or perhaps re-familiarize, themselves with the markers of CCD.  No beekeeper worth his/her water would go around mistaking AFB for a nosema infection, right?  Yet I've seen some pretty evident pesticide kills, starves, and all manner of other dead-outs called "CCD" by their respective beeks.  Don't be that guy.
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danno
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 08:05:32 AM »

I'm not buying this.   They plant treated seeds near and the effects are immediate?   First off they dont toss the seeds on the ground.   This would mean the bee's had to dig for them.   That is they would have to dig IF they had a interest in kernels of corn.   I know they always spill some but again its corn kernels.  2nd 1300 colonies in one location.   This is a loadout yard not a apiary and this time of the year in the upper midwest  these bee's are coming from somewhere.   I have no doubt its a pesticide kill but not the kind they are grabbing for.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 11:46:06 AM »

I'm not buying this.   They plant treated seeds near and the effects are immediate?   First off they dont toss the seeds on the ground.   This would mean the bee's had to dig for them.   That is they would have to dig IF they had a interest in kernels of corn.   I know they always spill some but again its corn kernels.  2nd 1300 colonies in one location.   This is a loadout yard not a apiary and this time of the year in the upper midwest  these bee's are coming from somewhere.   I have no doubt its a pesticide kill but not the kind they are grabbing for.

Danno,
When they treat the corn seeds the chemicals are sticky and they add corn starch to them to keep them from sticking together. If they are sticky they will not flow through the planters. While planting the planter puts out lots of neonicontinoid treated dust that ends up on every plant and flower down wind from the planted field. In this case the dust may also have been blown into the apiary also.
Remember, neonicontinoids are nerve agents, so strong they are measured in parts per billion.
Jim
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danno
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 01:39:29 PM »

Jim
I do understand what goes into a seed treatments.   I have also done my share of reading pros and cons.   read randy oliver scientific beekeeping site. this is a good article.    http://gallery.mailchimp.com/5fd2b1aa990e63193af2a573d/files/What_Happened_to_the_Bees_This_Spring2013_opt.pdf
As I said No one in the upper midwest keeps yard of 1300 on 4 way pallets much less over winters.  These bee's just made it back from somewhere be it CA or FL or somewhere in between
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2013, 11:35:13 AM »

Danno,
I agree with you, 1300 hives is a lot of bees on one site. Why use so many to prove a point. If you use a low value of $250 for a hive, that's $325,000 to prove what you could prove with 10 or at most 50 hives. Not 1300.
Jim
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oliver
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2013, 12:38:00 PM »

I don't think they said this was total destruction of colonies, just a percentage kill.. this is the same senerio I had here last week after they planted corn around us. Strongest hives had the most dead bees, don't know any way to estimate how many bees were lost. I still would not say poncho was the culprit, after watching this video it would certainly be number one on the list..We have endless corn fields, last week 20 to 30 mile per hour winds from the south west, you could taste the dust in the air and count a half dozen tractors or dust columns to  the south of us. I did not have total kill on any colonies, to date anyway,  but the numbers dropped big time..We don't have a lot of cattle or livestock in this area anymore, but the few left have to be ingesting this stuff from pastures and hay that it settled on. Looks like a myriad of ways for it to get in our food chain, can not see how this is a good thing.. have 10 colonies at the present.dl
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 01:50:47 PM »

i think every possibility should be examined.  that said, there is a segment of the population that goes from one hysteria to another trying to convince us all that the sky is falling...and to put this in the vernacular of my generation....it's THE MAN out to get you.  knowing that they tend to make the facts fit the agenda, i'm waiting for real fact before jumping on that wagon. 

i'm all for getting angry with Monsanto for things like proprietary seed practices, etc.   Wink
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2013, 03:06:50 PM »

If it was right after the planting it was due to the dust.

My wife who really listens very little to the bee issues I have asked me the other day whats that pink stuff they put on seeds. Seeing that she didnt say corn or some type I just replyed poison. Her next statement was very telling as she works as a rural mail carrier it stinks then she told me that when they are planting there is a pink cloud of dust fallowing the planters everywhere they go and it stinks. Seeing that every report you see says the stuff is deadly as it can be on the seed or the dust the seeds have I would say that the dust they had on the planters was doing it and if there was a wind in that direction you could get those results.

I have a friend with a lot of acres he wants me to put hives out there but he lets his farmer plant corn I told him I would not move a hive till after planting season to avoid the dust.

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danno
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2013, 03:54:56 PM »

I live in corn county.   I had a few thousand acres planted around my farm and 3 of my 4 other yards last week just like it happens every year.   The 4th is in fruit.     I have never smelled the planters or seen the pink dust.   Did your wife notice if the farmers had spray tanks hanging off the front of the  tractors.  At the price of fuel multiple trips through a fields are to costly.   
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danno
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 03:29:54 PM »

This is interesting.  This is a news cast 12 months ago on steve ellis and his bee's.  He had the same seed dust problem last year. May 10, 2012.    What did he do different this year?  Nothing  He brought them back from Almonds and dropped them in the same loadout yard


http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/47379683#47379683
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Haddon
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 04:39:23 PM »

The fact he had the same issue last year doesn't mean he didn't have it this year. As far as your reference that he didn't do anything different this year well I don't know where I could put 1300 hives that I wouldn't be in the middle of a corn field. Well there is some unirrigated drought land that is still planted in cotton. If I could convenience the own that I could put my bees there I could avoid the corn fields. Or I guess he could move them to the middle of a city lol and watch how long it takes the cops to show up.
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Nonprophet
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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 04:55:08 PM »

"Some of the problems associated with planting can likely be solved with some effort to change planting practices. The neonics are effective pesticides that are relatively non-toxic for many life forms (most notably humans), but (of course) are highly toxic to insects. Like all pesticides, they should be used judiciously – where there is a demonstrated need. This is a principle of pest management that has largely gone by the wayside in some large acreage cropping systems. The bee story is one indication that perhaps it is time to re-evaluate whether it is necessary to use up to 1.25 milligrams of neonicotinoids on virtually every single corn kernel that is planted in the country.  Planting corn is the largest use of arable land in the US, and each corn seed theoretically has enough pesticide to kill well over 100,000 bees."

http://www.extension.org/pages/65034/neonicotinoid-seed-treatments-and-honey-bee-health
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"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
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« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2013, 05:59:11 PM »

And much less deadly than the furadan it replaced.
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danno
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2013, 07:39:27 PM »

And much less deadly than the furadan it replaced.
As Randy Oliver said "be careful what you wish for"  seed treatments have replaced a couple of spray applications with chemistry like Furaden a Carbamate pesticide. 
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 10:50:43 AM »

 USDA-Tucson Bee Research lab has published  on the effect of Dursban (a Dow insecticide used on almonds) combined with fungicide (also on almonds)  on queen rearing and DWV. Published in Dec 2012.
 http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=286597

A deadout after a migratory trip sounds like exposure could have stressed the hives at some point on their journey.  Piles of dead bees in front of the hive is a marker of the Virii that accompany Varoa.    My understanding of CCD is the bees fly off and do not return to the hive, not that they pile up in front.
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don2
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 10:53:06 PM »

When I lost 7 out of 12 hives back in 2006/2007 there were no dead bees around my hives. No clean up varmints/wax moths/ants/ nothing touched 5 of them for over six months. These things went into the other two like crazy. I live in the middle of the forest, no farming, no power line spraying that year. I use bee friendly stuff on the garden. Mine was ccd.  Smiley d2
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2013, 11:42:55 AM »

don2 at what stage did you realize they were gone or dieing.
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