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Author Topic: I am so tired of painting.  (Read 8327 times)
RHBee
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 03:46:10 PM »

I am trying " ECO" wood preservative . You buy it in powder form and mix it with water. Not too expensive. It is supposed to be friendly to the environment.

Sounds worth looking into. Thanks.

>I'm thinking a tank large enough to cycle 4 of the largest components at one time would be 30"-L X 24"-W X 40"-D.

I'd say 24" by 20" by 24" (deep) will work fine to hold three deeps (one on end in the middle).

>Of that I'm factoring in a foot of free board for foaming.

4" will do.  A foot is far more than you need, but if you want to allow a foot, then you'd need to make it 36" deep.  30" would be plenty...

> I was going to build it out of 1/4" plate and fit the rig with heavy duty casters for mobility.

1/4" is more than you need. 1/8" would do.  You do need a VERY good joint, of course as it has to hold liquid wax...


Michael I tend to over-build everything. Once it's assembled it won't matter much. I need a line on the raw materials. The proper wax and rosin.I checked out the matetial on your site, your comments seem positive.
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Ray
Michael Bush
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 03:56:59 PM »

Resin:
http://catalog.pcchem.com/item/paint-coatings-ink-adhesive-and-sealant-chemicals/ink-resins/item-1874

You can buy paraffin from the local craft stores usually for cheaper than you can mail order after shipping...
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Michael Bush
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Grandpa Jim
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 01:02:32 AM »

I also hate painting and would rather spend an evening dipping 10 supers than painting them only to have the paint chip, peel or have the wood rot out under the paint.  This is not the best, but it can get you into wax dipping for the small beekeeper for less money, just takes more of your time.  You can do only one side at a time...2 mediums or 1 deep at a time.

The pan is available through any commercial food service supply house ..about $150. (it will cover 4 burners so it is about the size of a normal home stove top). http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollrath-wear-ever-68391-heavy-duty-aluminum-roast-pan/92268391.html   15 to 20 pounds of wax/rosin is all that is needed to fill the pan deep enough to cover one side at a time.  I have a commercial kitchen so I can work under a hood.  Once heated one burner keeps the wax hot enough without over heating.  It could easily be set up outside with a propane burner like you use for a turkey fryer.  You would obviously need a good solid base for the pan to rest on.

Jim

« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 01:16:05 AM by Grandpa Jim » Logged
Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2013, 02:48:30 AM »

why wouldn't you dip before you assemble the box, and just space the boards out on a rack? then simply make up a metal box either long or tall enough for the wood to sit in to do multiple boxes at once?
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RHBee
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2013, 02:55:08 AM »

why wouldn't you dip before you assemble the box, and just space the boards out on a rack? then simply make up a metal box either long or tall enough for the wood to sit in to do multiple boxes at once?

Cause the glue won't stick.
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Ray
RHBee
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2013, 03:09:01 AM »

Grandpa Jim that looks like it works fine.  I just want something bigger. Where do you buy your rosin and wax?
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2013, 12:54:28 PM »

I want to get something bigger too, but for now it works. 

I got the rosin from "Just Rosin!"... http://www.amberpinerosin.com/just-rosin-16-30-lbs-amber-pine-gum-rosin-chunks-flakes-4-75-lb/ 

I own a banquet facility and groups use candles for their functions but only burn half the candle.  I end up with lots of candle stubs and they are free...can't beat that.

I have thought of boiling the hives before assembly, would save some time but not sure how they would hold without the glue.  Will have to try some and see.
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2013, 01:04:07 AM »

why wouldn't you dip before you assemble the box, and just space the boards out on a rack? then simply make up a metal box either long or tall enough for the wood to sit in to do multiple boxes at once?

Cause the glue won't stick.

well now that would indeed explain it then. thanks for that.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2013, 05:23:27 AM »


Cause the glue won't stick.


At what temperature will the glue start to melt Huh

Michael Bush
"heated to between 230 and 250 F. At 250 the boxes cook nicely (like deep fat frying them) in about six to eight minutes. At 230, they take more like 10 to 12 minutes."
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm

I say if your glue will not stand up to this heat. rolleyes



                    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
RHBee
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2013, 06:29:20 AM »


Cause the glue won't stick.

At what temperature will the glue start to melt Huh

I say if your glue will not stand up to this heat. rolleyes

                    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley


Jim, I thought he was talking about waxing the components before assembly. I guess I shouldn't have answered so bluntly. I honestly have never tried to wax then glue. I rationalized that if the purpose of the wax is to seal the wood fibers against moisture and the purpose of the glue is to penetrate the wood fiber to create a bond. So, the wax would prevent the glue from doing what it has to do so:
                                                      
                                                     The glue won't stick.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 06:39:34 AM by Ray Bayless » Logged

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Ray
Jim 134
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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2013, 09:02:09 AM »

If you assembly first (with glue) and then dip in hot wax you will melt the glue out.
If you dip in hot wax unassembled glue will not stick to it the either will paint.
 

        

                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
RHBee
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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2013, 09:56:15 AM »

For anyone interested I was able to find these sources for the raw materials. I'm not sure that they are the lowest cost but they supply in quantities I can deal with.

For Rosin: http://www.amberpinerosin.com/

For Microcrystalline Wax: http://www.candlewic.com/default.asp

Now I have to design my tank. I saw one on youtube that incorporated a hinged lid that also holds the equipment below the wax level. I like the design.

Here is a link for a PDF document that explains the process. I hope this helps someone who is interested in this coating process.  http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/uploads/HotWaxDippingofBeehives.pdf
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 10:30:35 AM by Ray Bayless » Logged

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Ray
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2013, 12:19:03 PM »

I wonder if one couldn't just make a tank out of sheet metal in the shape of like a figure eight, 10" tall that would hold two deeps? this would save on having to fill them so much, surely right, since the middle would be empty? or what about simply putting in solid bricks in a larger square tank to take up the middle space? I seen a video where someone dips their box boards in this green stuff. (copper napalate with diesel fuel)
Beekeeping,Treating wood Beehive boxes,tops,bottoms.Beekeepers Bee hives preservation wood rot stop


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RHBee
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2013, 05:24:25 PM »

http://www.jhcalo.com/

Just received a quote from the above company for Brazilian gum rosin.  They are located in NY. Came in at $1.75/lb for 250lbs. I'd save $500.00 over Just Rosin who charges $3.75/lb and is located on the west coast. Who knows how much I would save in shipping cost.



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Ray
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« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2013, 01:03:03 PM »

Sry i did'nt take the time to read all of the post so this may have been mentioned... You said you use oil base at the present time. Oil base paints are not made for exterior applications as the properties of oil promote mold and fungus growth in an exterior enviroment. There are a few latex paints on the market that will give the same shell like apperance as an oil base. I use plain old Gripper Primer from Home Depot and apply it with a Paint sprayer. Never had enough boxes in front of me to give you a hive body per hour, (lol) but i know i could prime every wall and ceiling in a 2600 sq. ft. house before lunch on a bad day.... If you have that many hive bodies and parts, then by time you got finished with the first coat you could move right on to the second... Good luck on whatever route you go
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« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2013, 04:09:16 PM »

>why wouldn't you dip before you assemble the box, and just space the boards out on a rack?

I tried it and it was more trouble that it was worth. I'm not saying you couldn't come up with a practical method, but when I bound them together the wax didn't flow between, and when I tried to bundle them with spacers it was very difficult to pull off.  It was easier to just nail them together and then dip them...
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Michael Bush
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2013, 11:09:15 AM »

someone dips their box boards in this green stuff. (copper napalate with diesel fuel)


A paper on the relative safety of copper naphthenate is available: http://128.104.77.228/documnts/pdf1984/kalni84a.pdf

Less than 1 ppm of Cu is added to honey and wax using the Cu preservative.   The paper does caution on using fuel oil as the diluting agent, as it does migrate into the hive.   Paper is older (in that Penta and other bad things were still on the market), but appears to be very responsibly researched.

My boxes are highly rot-resistant redwood and latex.  (Redwood fence boards converted to mediums)
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Palouse
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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2013, 07:08:52 PM »

My boxes are highly rot-resistant redwood and latex.  (Redwood fence boards converted to mediums)

Redwood is nice. A bit brittle, but it's light, and as you mention, rot resistant. It machines well, too. If ever I were to make mediums out of 2x material, it'd be redwood.
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« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2013, 08:07:36 PM »

I used to make wooden decks for folks out of redwood but couldn't guarantee them. Redwood rots just as quick as pine down here. Cedar's a bit better but not by much.

Scott
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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2013, 05:32:29 PM »

someone dips their box boards in this green stuff. (copper napalate with diesel fuel)


A paper on the relative safety of copper naphthenate is available: http://128.104.77.228/documnts/pdf1984/kalni84a.pdf

Less than 1 ppm of Cu is added to honey and wax using the Cu preservative.   The paper does caution on using fuel oil as the diluting agent, as it does migrate into the hive.   Paper is older (in that Penta and other bad things were still on the market), but appears to be very responsibly researched.

My boxes are highly rot-resistant redwood and latex.  (Redwood fence boards converted to mediums)


ya from the article: "Few, if any, adverse findings resulted from treatments
of beehives with (1) a preservative-free water-repellent
solution, (2) copper naphthenate, (3) copper 8-
quinolinolate, and (4) ACC. Winter survival with these
treatments was better than or comparable to that in controls. Of these four treatments, only copper naphthenate
gave a slight increase in copper content of honey (less than
1 ppm)"
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