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Author Topic: I am so tired of painting.  (Read 7963 times)
RHBee
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« on: May 18, 2013, 10:51:50 PM »

I have given up on painting. Time to apply, time to cure, time that could be used for other stuff. I'm building my own equipment from scratch. Top covers, inner covers, bottom oil traps, bodies, every thing but frames. Takes more time but saves quite a bit of money. With the money I'm saving I want to start dipping the equipment in wax/tree rosin. What I would appreciate would be some guidance on the initial start-up costs associated with it and a good supplier of the proper paraffin wax and rosin for the job. The tank is something I can make. I'm thinking a tank large enough to cycle 4 of the largest components at one time would be 30"-L X 24"-W X 40"-D. Of that I'm factoring in a foot of free board for foaming. That works out to about 90 gallons of mixture in the tank give or take. I was going to build it out of 1/4" plate and fit the rig with heavy duty casters for mobility.
Anyway, That's the plan. Some guidance and information would be appreciated. Vendors for needed mixture components, Construction ideas, personal experiences all appreciated. Hands down this looks like the quickest approach to wood preservation. It also has the added bonus of hive sterilization seeing that the temps needed to get the proper soak and wood penetration are pretty high. Just makes sense for the growing apiary. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Ray
kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2013, 11:11:24 PM »

paint sprayers don't cost that much.  Wink  as for cure time, 2 hours or less between coats and use them the next day.  doesn't seem that bad?
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 Alexis de Tocqueville
RHBee
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2013, 11:43:06 PM »

paint sprayers don't cost that much.  Wink  as for cure time, 2 hours or less between coats and use them the next day.  doesn't seem that bad?

I thought about that. Actually looked at one in Lowes. I guess if I use exterior latex it would speed up the coating process considerably. If the costs for wax and the rig are to great I'll have to reconsider my plan. Kathy I really like the idea of the ability to sterilize and seal equipment interior.
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Ray
Moots
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2013, 11:50:09 PM »


,,,I guess if I use exterior latex it would speed up the coating process considerably.

what are you currently using?  oil base?  If so, why?   Clean up alone makes that a nightmare.  Not to mention, with advances in Latex paint and restrictions on the oil base paints, everything I hear now is that the latex is every bit as good.
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don2
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 11:55:50 PM »

Go Moots, Latex, nothing else will touch it. Smiley d2
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RHBee
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2013, 12:19:11 AM »


,,,I guess if I use exterior latex it would speed up the coating process considerably.

what are you currently using?  oil base?  If so, why?   Clean up alone makes that a nightmare.  Not to mention, with advances in Latex paint and restrictions on the oil base paints, everything I hear now is that the latex is every bit as good.

Moots, Yeah oil based is what I currently use. The reason is simply put durability. As for clean up, not really a problem. I use throw away equipment, a cheap 3" roller and cheaper brushes. This paint dries hard I haven't heard that latex could even come close to the oil based paints. I thought that latex always stays in the rubber stage. If I'm building something I want it to last. I'll do some looking at the specs for latex exterior. My information could be a little dated, I'm an electrician not a painter. Smiley
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Ray
don2
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2013, 12:45:04 AM »

No paint will last forever. I put 3 coats on new wood, then a coat every 3 to 5 years. Stack your boxes about 6 ft. high, all the same size of course,  in an area where you can walk around the stack, start at the top. this prevents runs. if you have three stacks, the first will be dry enough to put a second coat on by the time you finish the third stack. One to two hours to paint 15 to 25 or more boxes, use the next day. Use a water hose to spray the brush out  I don't use the traditional  bee hive white. Bull frog green or beige is another good color. or medium/light brown. Lowe's or any other place that sales paint will mix any color you want. Smiley d2
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2013, 07:47:07 PM »

personally I use what ever I can get My hands on. I have over 35 gals of Thompson grey fence paint and another 40 gals of mixed colors of enamel paint. and I use cheap cheap brushes and rollers and the occasional electric sprayer. the paint I got all for free  Smiley form a store that closed and didn't want to pay to have the paint disposed of .


John
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2013, 08:13:29 PM »

yup.  i buy oops latex paint or i get the latex from the recycle place.  slop it on and go. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2013, 08:50:31 PM »

everything I hear now is that the latex is every bit as good.
Evidently you haven’t been listening again. laugh

I thought that latex always stays in the rubber stage.
You are correct.  Latex doesn’t last as long as Enamel, but it breaths which can be a good thing when there is water vapor trying to escape.  For foam hives I use enamel, but I do use latex for the woodies.

There’s a big difference between painting a hive or two and painting 50.  It is a lot of work without a sprayer.  I hate painting too.  I haven’t discovered a great solution yet.  Maybe dip the hives in a barrel of paint?  grin  That's how they put primer on autos.
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2013, 09:07:50 PM »

everything I hear now is that the latex is every bit as good.
Evidently you haven’t been listening again. laugh

I thought that latex always stays in the rubber stage.
You are correct.  Latex doesn’t last as long as Enamel, but it breaths which can be a good thing when there is water vapor trying to escape.  For foam hives I use enamel, but I do use latex for the woodies.

There’s a big difference between painting a hive or two and painting 50.  It is a lot of work without a sprayer.  I hate painting too.  I haven’t discovered a great solution yet.  Maybe dip the hives in a barrel of paint?  grin  That's how they put primer on autos.


Problem with that is you end up painting the inside which the girls some times don't like at all and they will leave.

John
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2013, 09:19:51 PM »

I want to start dipping the equipment in wax/tree rosin. What I would appreciate would be some guidance on the initial start-up costs associated with it and a good supplier of the proper paraffin wax and rosin for the job. The tank is something I can make. I'm thinking a tank large enough to cycle 4 of the largest components at one time would be 30"-L X 24"-W X 40"-D. Of that I'm factoring in a foot of free board for foaming. That works out to about 90 gallons of mixture in the tank give or take. I was going to build it out of 1/4" plate and fit the rig with heavy duty casters for mobility.
Anyway, That's the plan. Some guidance and information would be appreciated. Vendors for needed mixture components, Construction ideas, personal experiences all appreciated. Hands down this looks like the quickest approach to wood preservation. It also has the added bonus of hive sterilization seeing that the temps needed to get the proper soak and wood penetration are pretty high. Just makes sense for the growing apiary. Thanks in advance for the help.
Back to the original question. I'm looking to trade money for quick and easy. Redipping gives the benefit of a clean slate. I've read a document from down under that states that the wax/rosin solution along with the high temperature effectively sanitizes the equipment.
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Ray
Moots
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2013, 09:20:37 PM »

everything I hear now is that the latex is every bit as good.
Evidently you haven’t been listening again. laugh

Phew- Thank god,blue is here...the guy that knows EVERYTHING about.EVERYTHING...or, at least thinks he does.  laugh

Blue wants to always talk investments.  Here's a GREAT investment tip...Figure out a way to buy Blue for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth.

Anyone able to do this could retire comfortably..QUITE COMFORTABLY! lau
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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BAH
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2013, 09:25:09 PM »

I was helper for a paint crew and was told oil base for metal only after a specific primer was added for specific metal surfaces. latex for wood always! All wood must breathe and expand, dued to moisture, latex allows this to happen. As for oil base paint will crack upon expansion. I did my job for about two years and those were the rules of Wyatt Painting Co., a big outfit where I am located, not saying this is correct, just saying it worked for them Smiley. Also FYI Latex is not good on metal because metal gets hot and will cause paint to bubble, this I am certain of because I have made the mistake before rolleyes. I would invest in a sprayer before the other, because for me space is minimum and valuable in my bee shop. Just my opinion.
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 09:34:26 PM »

Now boys keep it civil. Kiss

dipping boxes is great but very very expensive and time consuming. to get the wax to the proper temp takes a good day to do it and when it gets there it is very explosive. so be protected when doing it. second the investment in the equipment and the amounts of wax needed to do it. unless you plan to get into pollinating or selling it really is not cost effective. it is good at disinfecting but against AFB the torch or destruction is the only true way to go. all other problems the bees will seal off with propulus.

just my two cents worth.

John
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RHBee
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2013, 10:08:58 PM »

Phew- Thank god,blue is here...the guy that knows EVERYTHING about.EVERYTHING...or, at least thinks he does.  laugh

Blue wants to always talk investments.  Here's a GREAT investment tip...Figure out a way to buy Blue for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth.

Anyone able to do this could retire comfortably..QUITE COMFORTABLY! lau

Wow Moots. That wasn't very nice. I usually reserve that kind of stuff for people I'm trying to piss off. Really now, I value all input. I did some looking into the exterior latex/paint sprayer route. Would really cut down the prep time. Still has to be redone every 3 years or so. Dipping can last a decade or more if what I'm reading is correct.

I was helper for a paint crew and was told oil base for metal only after a specific primer was added for specific metal surfaces. latex for wood always! All wood must breathe and expand, dued to moisture, latex allows this to happen. As for oil base paint will crack upon expansion. I did my job for about two years and those were the rules of Wyatt Painting Co., a big outfit where I am located, not saying this is correct, just saying it worked for them Smiley. Also FYI Latex is not good on metal because metal gets hot and will cause paint to bubble, this I am certain of because I have made the mistake before rolleyes. I would invest in a sprayer before the other, because for me space is minimum and valuable in my bee shop. Just my opinion.
Thanks BAH, that does mean that I was doing it wrong. Wrong paint for the application. Like I said, I'm an electrician. grin Learning all the time. You have to wear a lot of different kinds of hats to be a keeper.

Now boys keep it civil. Kiss

dipping boxes is great but very very expensive and time consuming. to get the wax to the proper temp takes a good day to do it and when it gets there it is very explosive. so be protected when doing it. second the investment in the equipment and the amounts of wax needed to do it. unless you plan to get into pollinating or selling it really is not cost effective. it is good at disinfecting but against AFB the torch or destruction is the only true way to go. all other problems the bees will seal off with propulus.

just my two cents worth.

John
Thanks John, I'll continue to research the whole thing. It may be just another idea that initially looks good but then after further scrutiny isn't all that good.
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Ray
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2013, 10:24:28 PM »

Hi beeks!

Like a lot of us its really time consuming painting. I'm going to get a wax dipper and would like photos.
A picture speaks a thoasand words!

Cheers
Ben
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2013, 01:31:05 AM »

make your hives out of cedar and forget about all of it, or one of these woods if in your area:
Baldcypress (old growth)
Catalpa (yes catalpa)
Cherry, black
Chestnut
Cypress, Arizona
Junipers
Locust, black
Mulberry, red
Oak, bur
Oak, chestnut
Oak, Gambel
Oak, Oregon white
Oak, post
Oak, white
Osage-orange3
Redwood
Sassafras
Walnut, black
Yew, Pacific
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bbbthingmaker
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2013, 07:54:50 AM »

I am trying " ECO" wood preservative . You buy it in powder form and mix it with water. Not too expensive. It is supposed to be friendly to the environment. You can brush it , spray it , or dip it.  Cures to a light brown .Simple water cleanup. If it's half as good as advertised it should outlast me.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2013, 09:20:29 AM »

>I'm thinking a tank large enough to cycle 4 of the largest components at one time would be 30"-L X 24"-W X 40"-D.

I'd say 24" by 20" by 24" (deep) will work fine to hold three deeps (one on end in the middle).

>Of that I'm factoring in a foot of free board for foaming.

4" will do.  A foot is far more than you need, but if you want to allow a foot, then you'd need to make it 36" deep.  30" would be plenty...

> I was going to build it out of 1/4" plate and fit the rig with heavy duty casters for mobility.

1/4" is more than you need. 1/8" would do.  You do need a VERY good joint, of course as it has to hold liquid wax...
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Michael Bush
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