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Author Topic: WELL... It's time for a handgun - I need your input.  (Read 11718 times)
Mbeck
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« Reply #120 on: August 09, 2013, 12:21:09 AM »


I have and still do holiday a lot in Florida albeit now with the grandchildren but it un-nerves me that you seem to think it normal to walk around with a gun stuck in your trousers! Methinks its time to rethink my holiday destination.
[/quote]

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We don't need people that can't mind their own business here. You have no business concerning yourself with the contents of my pockets. My gift, my right to decide how to defend it.
Take your phony economic threat somewhere else. Do you know why there aren't metal detectors at Disney? It's because they couldn't withstand the real economic threat.

Just to change the subject, anyone have a favorite theme park rig (holster) something that has great retention for the roller coasters yet drys quick after you get off the waterslides? How about your favorite primer sealer when you know your going to be on the waterslides all day?
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« Reply #121 on: August 09, 2013, 12:38:04 AM »

I like Sig Saurs, but most important is training to use them.  Any pistol will work well if you are trained well.  If you have a chance to get out to Las Vegas it's easy to get certificates to go to frontsight for free.  I'd highly suggest it.  PM me for details.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #122 on: August 14, 2013, 01:16:59 PM »

>So, I will be surprised if I see my ID come before Christmas

To me this would be unacceptable.  What if your life was being threatened in the meantime... do you think that could be put off until Christmas?  I know we already covered it, but if I was in need of a gun, in Nebraska (and foolish enough to not already have one) I could LEGALLY have one by this evening.  Of course, I'm sure you could have one by this evening anywhere in the world, but it may or may not be legal...
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« Reply #123 on: August 14, 2013, 07:27:27 PM »

Welcome to the great state of Alabama! We have open carry and just had open carry fortified. That means you can strap a pistol on your hip and walk around with it not needing a permit.

I would like to recommend something called a flash bang holster. It's for women. Mainly for a small caliber like a .38 or small 9mm. It fits between your breast where your bra holds your cups together. It's called flash bang because you grab your shirt in the front, lift up, and near bout expose yourself, at the same time you're pulling the pistol downward from the holster. FLASH - BANG! There's a you tube video on it.
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« Reply #124 on: August 14, 2013, 08:54:29 PM »

Quote
There's a you tube video on it.

there is indeed and it has had A LOT of hits!!

it just looks like a sweat producer to me...but what do i know?   evil
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OldMech
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« Reply #125 on: August 17, 2013, 02:03:38 AM »

Yes, I've been throwing the thought to get my Permit to Purchase (NJ Jargon) for getting a weapon. Basically, the permit is to purchase, up to two weapons, the permit is good for three months, but can be extended another 3 months.

No, my victim being a victim of mild road rage did not sway me over the top, it has been coming a long time, well beyond the year I have given it more thought. Remember, this is a big deal to me and the State of NJ who has had background checks, no conceal carry (except in extreme cases) and surely no weapon accessible in an automobile.

That said, here is where you all come in: I want the weapon for home protection, I don't want a revolver, nor a pistol with excessive noise, flash or something overkill for home protection.

I don't need lists of your armory, just a description of your favorite hand-helds and why they are your favorite, especially keeping in mind my wife and I have little to no experience.

After a few dozen Youtube videos, I like a double-action/single action combo, just seems a bit safer before firing and fast re-fire after that. I also like a rubberized or composite material, both the look and the feel, I love the bright colors alignment guides too.

Again, I'm just window shopping for what I might like, I'll be taking coworkers who have a good selection of weapons to the gun-range to get the final feel for what is right for me and her. We will both go obviously.

The wait time is around 2.5-3 months, lots of time to learn what I can and to find out from owner what is their favorite handgun and why. Oh, I also like the conceal carry sized weapons, not the super small, but something that fits nicely in smaller hands but gets the job done if ever needed. I was told by my most savvy gun owner - a great hunter from crossbow, to flint rifle to a miriad of stockpiled weapon that a 38 special is a good all around weapon because of multiple ammo options, size and recoil - all important things.

A BIG consideration too is I'm left-handed. I want a semi-auto and wondering if the shell expeller (sic)is an issue - are there left-handed guns, does it really make that much difference to even consider this point. I just know there are a thousand questions I don't know enough to even ask.

But for reference, I plan on two handguns, on in the living room safely stowed to the rear of a stand besides my comfy chair and the second in the bedroom. Ideally, I want to rounds in the chamber, I want a full clip and just a slide away from being armed and very ready if needed.

As always, I'm a rookie seeking out your knowledge, I know I'll learn some things with this post. A question that bugs me, is why does the Glock barrel seem to point upwards rather than parallel - is that an illusion?

Lastly, keep in mind ammo cost and availability, I expect to spend some time at the range and I know that can get expensive quickly.

   I have not read all the other posts, so forgive me if I am beating a dead horse.
   I worked as, and owned my own gunsmithing business, selling, refinishing and fixing guns for many years. 
   First thing I want to say, is that most people buy something too big for their first gun. I have storeis to tell about this, but tend to get into writing books instead of simple posts, so will TRY to keep it simple..   Larger guns produce a lot of recoil and a BIT more noise..   People tend to develop a flinch when they pull the trigger, and often dont even realize what they are doing.
   So I want to recommend that you buy TWO guns, (or the smaller one first) both of a similar type. Whatever Semi you want to use for home defense, and a .22 Semi of similar type and function. The purpose is to SHOOT the .22 and practice. It has almost no recoil, and very little noise. By shooting the .22 you can condition yourself to use the right hold, to breathe and aim correctly, before you start shooting the 9mm, .45, or whatever it is you decide to get. Conditioning yourself with the smaller gun will help you tremendously when you begin practicing with the larger caliber.
   Yes there are left handed versions of Semi autos, but they are often more expensive.  I know a lot of left handed people who have trained themselves to shoot right handed.  Depending on the Semi you buy.. if you buy a right handed gun and shoot it left handed, you might get beaned by the spent cartridge, so if you can try them out first. Some Semi's are ambidextrous, or can be bought with that option, AND, they put the spent casing up over your head behind you. So try them, and make sure they will work for you before you buy one.


   Book;
   A big burly guy I Knew brought a gun into my shop.. said it wouldnt hit the broad side of a barn..  I told him I woold look at it..

   So... this thing is a Thompson Contender, in 45-70.. yes, a pistol... that shoots a cartridge as big as your thumb..   I owned several large caliber handguns, and had learned to shoot them well, so was not too worried about this thing.
   I loaded it, aimed, fired....
   It peeled the skin off the meaty part of where my thumb and palm meet, and completely NUMBED my hand... Forearm, all the way to my shoulder.  When I had the injury cared for, I looked through my spotting scope to see a neat hole JUST touching the bull in the target.
  I didnt fire it again.
  He came in the next day... and I loaded it in front of him, with a round I had reloaded, with a dead primer and no powder. I turned the camera on, and told him to go ahead and shoot it...   Yeah.. he almost fell over when he squeezed the trigger. he CLOSED his eyes, and his whole body lunged forward when the gun ... Clicked...    I convinced him to get a .22 barrel for it to practice with, and then trade that in for larger calibers, working his way up until he COULD shoot the big cartridge..  I considered myself pretty macho back then...  certainly cured me of that!
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« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »

Thanks oldMech and all:

Everything you said is basically how I am going toward. I'm always watching reviews from very trusted Youtubers and handgun forum posters. I read product reviews and research everything.

I know the two handguns I will be getting are a 9mm and a 22 - I've shot both several times in my life, even got to shoot at Uncle Buds briefly with a 22 with a fiber optic front sight. I shot a 9mm down on my family's NC farm a long time ago and also at a gun club in Berkeley (said as Berkly) NJ.

All this a while ago, and little of it did I get to load mags, most of it was hand me the gun and shoot. Honestly, I'm not a had shot, I got a good stance for handling recoil and I'm sure I'll be a good range shooter - which is the only place you can shoot in NJ anymore.

I've moved all around the spectrum of 9mm gun, starting with the Sig Sauer P238 .380 and its 9mm big brother in carry size pistols the P938. Both, beatiful handguns, but after seeing the .380 and how seriously small it is, it wouldn't be a handgun of choice, and there have been countless reported misfires, FTF, etc with the P938 - although Sig seems to have fixed the issue with a beefier extractor and different spring, I changed my mind again after seeing Sig's M11-A1 a modified version of the P228 (229 some say) which has a stainless milled out slide, aluminum body, decocker (which I love) although Iknow it isn't a true decocker because you can still fire the gun in double action.

But the weight of 32 oz. bothers me. It is a beautiful gun, especially the two tone, but it is heavy by my preference. Great I'm sure for recoil, but I know how a 9mm feels and I don't see any issues with any of the mid-side handguns in 9mm.

So here I am, months later thinking the Glock 19 gen 4 is a real serious contender. It's a full soda can lighter than the m11-a1, probably the most owned handgun in the states, which doesn't mean much, but following the glock forums has been interesting in the discussions and although Glock owners often live and breathe Glocks, I still read post all the time where issues arise and owners complain about things when they occur.

The most interesting is similar to what you said about getting pinged in the face with spent cartridges, but this seems to happen ONLY after 800 or 900 shots are fired, it isn't anything out of the box and it isn't common either. Another hundred rounds and the problem usually fixes itself, although most people send it back to Glock who have a decent turn-around time.

As far as a 22 goes, that is something I am struggling with. I have honestly done more research on the 9mm but the 22 issue with me is revolver of semi-auto. To use it as a practice gun, it would have to be a semi. But for sheer simplicity a revolver can't be beat.

I'll end by saying Since I have another 3-4 months (gotta love the state of NJ - although the processing is all done at my local PD who is still working on March licensing) still, I think I'll see the license and permits for handguns around Christmas - just an educated guess but thinking "in December" and "getting it in October" will be a nice surprise.  After all. I just applied at the end of MAY - ugh.

I know there will be a lot of dry firing and I plan on getting the TIPTON snap caps with the spring loaded polymer like shell, 5 for $18 and even if you don't need them, I like the idea of having and using them, good for loading the magazine, practice fire and hand rack ejecting - stuff you can do at home to build up muscle memory.

Thanks for writing, and oh... the Glock 19 because 15 round mags are NJ's max number allowed. The state senate wants to lower that to 10, but getting nowhere with that idea. And back to the Sig P938, even if it fires beautifully with now FTF, FTE, or other issues (most common because of lighter 115gr ammo) I still don't like the idea of 6+1 or 7+1 loaded guns for range shooting, I'd be paying sig's ridiculous price for more mags and that gets really expensive, especially with an expensive gun to start with.

Although, the M11-A1 is a 15rd mag, it still is a heavy gun for a lefty with a major muscle detached off my shoulder. I am left eye dominant and I'll be supporting my left hand with my right. Holding a half pint of honey at arms length equals out the M11-A1 nicely (minus loaded mag) and I can hold it rock steady, but I know I'd poop out after 50 or so rounds. Lots to think about and lots of time to think.
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« Reply #127 on: August 17, 2013, 03:02:42 PM »

hehe... Looks like your doing your homework. I like Glocks, but have always leaned toward 1911's Built a lot of them, ordering Stainless Essex frames and fitting mil spec slides etc to them to make a two tone beautiful gun with bead blasted blued slides.
   I think you will do fine from what I see as far as your research. If you can, GO to the range and try different guns, see what you like and what feels good in your hand.
   If your going to be using a semi for home defense, then buy a semi .22..   I like revolvers, have owned a lot, and won a couple "local" competitions with them, but to be honest, when I go squirrel/rabbit hunting, I carry a Ruger Mark III Hunter model, and I love it. I loved it 15 years ago, and I love it today. Using a semi as opposed to a revolver will help make you more familiar with the type of gun that may save your life.
   At the range, loading wont make a difference. Fire six rounds, or fire twelve, then you reload, your not in a hurry, and reloading lets you think while you do it.  In capacity on the home defense gun, I know the trend is that more is better, but if you have to expend more than six rounds in a home defense situation, your in trouble no matter what. Anyone in your home, being on the receiving end of a .25 acp is going to be leaving a poo trail OUT the way they came in, with the exception of perhaps someone highly drugged up, and in that case it wont matter if its a 9 or a .25 to them..  a .40, .45, 44 Mag etc has more knockdown/Shock, but is not practical for most. The most important thing, is that YOU, are comfortable, and confident with what you have. KNOW how to use it in the dark. Load it, take the safety off etc in total darkness.
   I do not know NJ Laws, and I dont want to. That is another reason I live where I do. Like Mr Bush said. I could legally have a gun in a few hours here, as opposed to days. Some states require that you have a gun,,  IN a safe, WITH a lock of some type installed... IMHO that completely defeats the purpose of owning one. I am an advocate of removing stupidity rather than removing firearms. I have never met a stupid gun, but have met a lot of stupid people.
   In over 40 years of being around guns, i have NEVER had one of them hop out of the cabinet, or off the shelf and try to hurt me.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2013, 03:16:55 PM »

The 9mm vs. .45acp issue is pretty settled: one or the other is more likely to work than the other one sometimes - depending.
For myself I want one of those heritage arms cowboy .22 SA revolvers - but that isn't for self defense - unless shook cans of sam's cola invade.
if it was just me - I'd ask around and see what pistol caliber is most available and find something in that to fit your hand.
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« Reply #129 on: August 18, 2013, 08:52:41 AM »

A .357 is a good choice too. You can practice with .38 and load .357 for home defense and you don't have to buy a separate gun.
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« Reply #130 on: August 18, 2013, 10:35:45 AM »

A .357 is a good choice too. You can practice with .38 and load .357 for home defense and you don't have to buy a separate gun.
[/quote

   Agreed completely.   In time, as you progress in your gun ownership you can also get into reloading.
 Reloading allows you to produce lower power rounds and or cheaper rounds just for practicing. Cheaper bullets, Or, bullets you can cast yourself if you have access to a lead supply can add to your hobby and make it more enjoyable.
    Different loads. different bullets, types of powders, powder charges, primers, and resizing cases trying to find that PERFECT combination that produces the best accuracy from a particular barrel....     It is an enjoyable hobby that has a practical side.

   Telling the wife that reloading would be much cheaper worked way back then...  Of course, it wasnt cheaper. I still spent the same amount of money.. I just got to shoot a LOT more!!!!
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« Reply #131 on: August 19, 2013, 02:28:28 AM »

I have a smattering of both pistols and revolvers, for home defense I like the Taurus Judge 3", it will shoot any 45 cal round from a 45 short through 454 Casull.  But the 410 round has less recoil and is fun to shot in it.  No 4 or 5 bird shot does a lot of damage at 15 feet with little danger of ricochets, or killing someone in the neighbors house. Being a wheel gun the next round is just a trigger pull away.
The drawbacks: the long cylinder makes it barrel heavy so a strong wrist is better, and it is limited to 5 rounds.
Have I ever drawn a handgun on someone with the intent to kill, yes, twice back in my law enforcement days, luckily I recognized that completing the pull on the trigger was not necessary, but by the same token I know I can if I ever need to.
I have a CPW an usually carry a 38 revolver or a 380 semi-auto, when I go to the big city I carry both.
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« Reply #132 on: August 19, 2013, 11:08:25 AM »

My carry weapon is a S&W M&P .45c. It's small, lightweight and conceals well. The advantage in the S&W M&P line is that their .22, 9mm & .45 all use the same frame design which is handy for training (Glock is simialr as well). Same grip, same action no matter the caliber. Don't get wrapped around the axle with just SA/DA sidearms. I have two other SA/DA weapons (Beretta w/decocker and Sarsilmaz) and I find the S&W much more user friendly and safer with just a thumb safety. Parts are easy to find and upgrades are pretty standard throughout the industry. My wife has a S&W M&P .22 - in a pinch she can pick up my .45 and use it without learning a whole new manual of arms.

No matter what direction you go - train with it, and by train I don't mean plink a can in the backyard for 50 rounds and you're good. Go to a class for basic pistol and become familiar with it. Become familiar with shooting strong hand and support hand, learn malfunctions and how to clear them safely and properly, learn proper sight picture and also low light shooting. Train, train and then train some more. Some trainers even offer a Home Defense course that will teach you the basics of cover, shooting positions and room clearing all with home defense in mind.

Also - don't eliminate shotguns (just please don't pop off two rounds of buckshot into the air out your patio door as a deterent though) and AR style rifles for home defense, you might be surprised at how effective an AR actually is for defending ones home. Mrs. Pole finds handling an AR to be much easier than a pistol - she's a wee tiny girl and has issues racking the slide on all my sidearms.
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« Reply #133 on: August 19, 2013, 05:38:27 PM »

Quote
(just please don't pop off two rounds of buckshot into the air out your patio door as a deterent though)

LOL  he's not the VP   evil
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« Reply #134 on: August 19, 2013, 06:13:02 PM »

That is true, Dick Cheney is the only person I know who shot a man in the face and the man Apologized. LOL
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« Reply #135 on: August 20, 2013, 12:13:56 AM »

One I haven't seen mentioned yet and will be my next purchase is a FN 57. Kind of in between.
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« Reply #136 on: August 20, 2013, 09:58:07 AM »

you seem pretty set on what you want but i'm going to cast my vote on the 38 special or 357 magnum revolver.  frankly the 38 special and a 12 (or even 20) gauge shotgun would be my choices for home defense.  if you are in a situation where you need a high capacity magazine inside your house to defend yourself you're probably in pretty bad trouble already.  when i carry it's usually a 5 shot taurus 38 special revolver or a taurus 22 long rifle automatic.  if you want the firepower i'm pretty fond of the beretta px4 storm (this is a gun that has to be cleaned regularly or you will have some issues).  i prefer the .40 caliber round over the 9 mm.  what ever you get you need to spend a lot of time at the range with it.  you need to be comfortable with your gun.  the more you handle it the safer you should be with it (i'm sure that's not always the case, though).   
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« Reply #137 on: August 20, 2013, 10:03:09 AM »

Quote
(just please don't pop off two rounds of buckshot into the air out your patio door as a deterent though)

LOL  he's not the VP   evil

i thought she was talking about biden telling people they should get double barrel shotguns for home defense.  i think a shotgun isn't a bad idea but i'd like a pump or autoloader instead of a breach gun.
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« Reply #138 on: August 20, 2013, 11:33:51 AM »

While I think a shotgun is great for "entertaining" a gang of miscreants on the lawn trying to assault your home, they are worthless face to face, which is how most home invasions go down.  That long barrel is slow to handle and easy for the criminal to quickly grasp.
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« Reply #139 on: August 20, 2013, 06:53:41 PM »

While I think a shotgun is great for "entertaining" a gang of miscreants on the lawn trying to assault your home, they are worthless face to face, which is how most home invasions go down.  That long barrel is slow to handle and easy for the criminal to quickly grasp.

if they lived to get that close to me i've already screwed up.
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