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Author Topic: WELL... It's time for a handgun - I need your input.  (Read 14021 times)
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« on: May 13, 2013, 06:13:13 PM »

Yes, I've been throwing the thought to get my Permit to Purchase (NJ Jargon) for getting a weapon. Basically, the permit is to purchase, up to two weapons, the permit is good for three months, but can be extended another 3 months.

No, my victim being a victim of mild road rage did not sway me over the top, it has been coming a long time, well beyond the year I have given it more thought. Remember, this is a big deal to me and the State of NJ who has had background checks, no conceal carry (except in extreme cases) and surely no weapon accessible in an automobile.

That said, here is where you all come in: I want the weapon for home protection, I don't want a revolver, nor a pistol with excessive noise, flash or something overkill for home protection.

I don't need lists of your armory, just a description of your favorite hand-helds and why they are your favorite, especially keeping in mind my wife and I have little to no experience.

After a few dozen Youtube videos, I like a double-action/single action combo, just seems a bit safer before firing and fast re-fire after that. I also like a rubberized or composite material, both the look and the feel, I love the bright colors alignment guides too.

Again, I'm just window shopping for what I might like, I'll be taking coworkers who have a good selection of weapons to the gun-range to get the final feel for what is right for me and her. We will both go obviously.

The wait time is around 2.5-3 months, lots of time to learn what I can and to find out from owner what is their favorite handgun and why. Oh, I also like the conceal carry sized weapons, not the super small, but something that fits nicely in smaller hands but gets the job done if ever needed. I was told by my most savvy gun owner - a great hunter from crossbow, to flint rifle to a miriad of stockpiled weapon that a 38 special is a good all around weapon because of multiple ammo options, size and recoil - all important things.

A BIG consideration too is I'm left-handed. I want a semi-auto and wondering if the shell expeller (sic)is an issue - are there left-handed guns, does it really make that much difference to even consider this point. I just know there are a thousand questions I don't know enough to even ask.

But for reference, I plan on two handguns, on in the living room safely stowed to the rear of a stand besides my comfy chair and the second in the bedroom. Ideally, I want to rounds in the chamber, I want a full clip and just a slide away from being armed and very ready if needed.

As always, I'm a rookie seeking out your knowledge, I know I'll learn some things with this post. A question that bugs me, is why does the Glock barrel seem to point upwards rather than parallel - is that an illusion?

Lastly, keep in mind ammo cost and availability, I expect to spend some time at the range and I know that can get expensive quickly.
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 06:40:04 PM »

Too bad you didn't mention this at Bud3. My Kel-tec P-32, the lightest weight auto ever made, was in my pocket at the time. I would have let you try it out there. I carry the standard 7 round clip in it and the extended 9 round clip close by. I do not like the 45's. ETC., which I call cannons. The cannon carriers call my .32 a peashooter, but I don't know of anyone who was still standing after a couple of peashooter shots in the torso. The p-32 is small enough for your wife to fire without a lot of recoil, and the 9 round clip will allow all your fingers to rest on the handle, rather than just the normal 3 on a small pistol.
It is a double action, double action safety. It has no visible safety, but a very positive safety built in. You can fire once and the safety will be on afterward. The hammer will not stay back. It can be dropped, bumped, banged, whatever. It will not accidentally fire.

Try it, you'll like it.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 06:53:43 PM by iddee » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 06:42:25 PM »

Beemaster,
Understand there's a multitude of options out there...realize that cheap guns are usually cheap for a reason.  If you stick to the well know better brands you should be fine and it's all a matter of personal taste and preference.  Similar to if we want to start a discussion on who makes the best truck...Ford, Cherolet, Ram or Toyota.  Everyone has an opinion, and at the end of the day, there all good trucks.

That being said, I'll argue for what I prefer and am familiar with...

Like so many, I'm a huge Glock fan.  I have a Model 23 and my duty weapon is the Model 22, both are .40 caliber with the 23 have a smaller frame....Something that most likely would be better suited to your wife's hands.

I like the .40 round...a little bigger than a 9mm, but smaller than a .45.   It's basically equivalent to a 10mm.  Lots of time, money and research went into the development of this round.

The only thing Glock makes that I absolutely don't care for is their conceal carry line.  For the .40, It's the model 27 and is basically their standard model with a shortened hand grip and barrel.  The problem is it still has a double stack magazine, which is like trying to hide a double cheeseburger in your waistband.

For conceal carry I have a Kahr PM40....lots of guys in our department carry the Kahr P40, which is slightly larger, but still small enough for a concealable weapon.  

Good luck!
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 06:48:25 PM »

On the subject of Kel-Tec, I have a P40 that I purchased several years ago, never could manage to get through a magazine without it jamming.  Sent it back to the factory, got it back, went to the range.....And same results!  Needless to say, I'm not a fan.

I've been told by the factory to mail it back in....I haven't even bothered!  Anyone interested, I'll make you one heck of a deal.  laugh
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 06:57:23 PM »

my 9mm is a Ruger.  really nice to handle, but there's a reason it comes with a 17 round magazine.  i have a couple of .45s but the one i really like is the Taurus. not your most expensive weapon, but it fits me well.

which brings me to MY most important advice:  go to a gun shop and shoot a lot of different weapons.  take some lessons.  find the weapon that you are comfortable with.  it does no good to buy something and find out that it's hard to handle, hard to load, or miserable to fire.

oh...and if you really want a nice hand cannon, i have a S&W .357 revolver.  if you buy a revolver, and they are fun, buy a couple of speed loaders to go with it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »

If it were a .32, I would be interested. I have never had a jam on mine. If the factory says send it back and you don't, then I wouldn't complain about the piece. After all, it is American made, in Florida. Not that much trouble to send back.
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 09:17:57 PM »

Kel-tec is only an hour away from me. I've got the .32, the .380, and the 9mm. I had the same problems with the .380 at first but the factory fixed it up while I waited at their walk up window. I found that the ammo you use has a lot to do with double feed on the older models too. I always have the 32 in the small of my back and can't tell it's there. Moots, let me know what you want for yours!

John, as Kathy suggests, go to the gun shop and handle everything they've got. You'll soon find where your tastes lie. Don't shy away from walther either...the p22 is the most comfortable grip for me although a small caliber.

Scott
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 09:40:45 PM »


oh...and if you really want a nice hand cannon, i have a S&W .357 revolver.  if you buy a revolver, and they are fun, buy a couple of speed loaders to go with it.


Kathy,
If you're a fan of a wheel gun and speed loaders, you'll be able to appreciate this.  I'm sure you've probably heard of Jerry Miculik.  Here's a little youtube footage of him in action!

I first saw this guy shoot at a local competition that my brother and some of his friends were participating in, probably in the mid 80's, long before he signed on with Smith & Wesson.  It was a speed shooting competition, so EVERYONE,  needless to say, was shooting semi-automatics....except this one guy.  My other brother had seen him shoot before, he gave me a nudge, pointed out Jerry and the fact that he had a Revolver and said watch this guy shoot, and pay attention to his reload.  That was more than 25 years ago and I still have trouble believing what I witnessed that day.  Smiley

Another quick clip of Jerry doing what he does!
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 09:48:14 PM »

Try all you can and then decide, brand and caliber.  There's not a lot I don't like.  Right now my favorite is an Ithaca 1911, 45, full size.  It takes a big pocket to carry it, but I have.  It is very accurate and will take care of the problem.  I shot a friends Walter P-38 with pearl handles, I really like it.  Good luck with you decision.



Joe
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 10:54:50 PM »

The lefty is not much of an issue you may want to pay attention to mag release and ambidextrous safety. If you choose an external safety.

You said you don't want a revolver but you mention 38 special. Kathyp's suggestion of a .357 is not a bad idea very smooth weapon when you shoot 38's out of. Also if your gonna make one a revolver don't count out The Judge by Taurus loaded with .410 buck shot a good home defense pistol. IMO.

Conceal carry size I like the Kahr 9mm the 40 cal in this gun is too much the way the trigger guard is built it will bite your finger every time you shoot or it does me anyway. The Glock G26 as is the SR9c and the Kahr CW9 are good cc 9mm pistols imo. My problem with the smaller semi auto Taurus' I have looked at is if the mag falls out the gun will not fire even with a round in the chamber, and I just don't like that.

The Glock look is something that bothers a lot of people usually until they fire one and then they love them, not all but most. If I made one of the two a Glock I would look at a 40. You can swap out barrels and/or mags and have 3 different calibers 9mm 357 sig and 40 cal.

That being said if it were a choice of only two for me it would be a Ruger P series in 9mm and a Remington 870 12 gauge home defense shotgun, pistol grip with an extended magazine.
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 11:02:30 PM »

thanks Moots.  that's cool.

John, one thing to think about.  i don't ever recommend that someone be armed unless they believe in their hearts that they can kill.  none of us will really know until that moment comes, but we have to believe that we'll pull the trigger.

if you don't think you can kill, you shouldn't own what might become the instrument of your own death.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 11:11:58 PM »


That being said if it were a choice of only two for me it would be a Ruger P series in 9mm and a Remington 870 12 gauge home defense shotgun, pistol grip with an extended magazine.

I like Tim throwing the shotgun in the mix...If your primary goal is truly home defense, hard to imagine a more effective weapon on any number of levels.   Including the good old intimidation factor...few things in life will get a bad guys attention as quickly as the sound of racking a fresh round into a shotgun. 
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 11:39:04 PM »

I have been issued with both a a Revolver in 38 Special and then a Glock 22 in 40 cal.  I loved them both and I am a gun loving person. I like revolvers for Non gun types as they are plain and simple and you can physically see the hammer going back no darn safeties to play with.  It will go Bang every time.KISS. (Keep it Simple Stupid) no insult intended.
So buy a S&W 357 Magnum and train with cheap 38 special rounds(I gun shop will explain this better) and load up with full house 357 rounds when your need to make someone ears bleed!

Cheers
Steve
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 11:40:29 PM »

My best advise is to go to your local indoor gun range/shop and rent different models of hand guns. defiantly take your wife with you to try the hand guns also. the all around home defence hand gun for you and your wife. I would say try the 38 special hand gun with extra speed loaders. My wife prefers the 38 Sp because she has hand difficulty at racking the semi. plus you can very the loads. in hers the first is a cci snake shot so she can just point in the general direction and even if she in shaking ( which she or you will be doing) you will sting them and get their attention and they may retreat the the second and third are flat head slugs to give them a punch. then snake. then slugs. that gives a good area of coverage plus the recoil is better on her hand and she will keep control of he gun.

But as I suggest is both go to the indoor range and have a day of fun in the thunder.

John
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 08:24:42 AM »

> I don't want a revolver, nor a pistol with excessive noise, flash or something overkill for home protection.

Too bad.  I think a revolver is by far the best choice.  For targets, hunting, or whatever, there are many choices that are equally useful.  For self defense, I don't have any interest in anything but a DA revolver.   It is the most reliable and the least confusing.  Trust me, if you ever need it you will probably be half asleep.  The last thing you need is something that you have to think about.  With a DA revolver, you point and pull the trigger.  A typical semi-auto can be in any one of six states (usually numbered down from 5 to 0).  A DA revolver should only be in one of two states: Loaded or unloaded.  If you pull the trigger on a semi-auto and it doesn't fire, you have to figure out why (a difficult thing when you are half asleep because someone kicked your door in, in the middle of the night).  Maybe you left the safety on.  Maybe it misfired.  Maybe there wasn't a round in the chamber.  If a revolver misfires, there is only one action required--you pull the trigger again.  There is no safety (and there should not be).  If a cartridge misfired, pulling the trigger again will move a new round into position.

As far as power, I would not buy anything more or less than a .357.  A .38, if you have +P loads, is adequate (and can be fired in a .357) for self defense.  A .357 is much more reliable at stopping power.  A .44 is a bit much to handle and may penetrate through more walls etc. than you want.  Frangible rounds are useful in that they don't tend to go through walls because they break up.  You always have to keep in mind where a miss will go...

Another thing to keep in mind is that self defense situations usually occur face to face.  Houses are not that big and usually the situation unravels quickly.  I find it very helpful to keep the gun out of the situation (behind your back, in your pocket etc.) while having it very handy (in your hand in your pocket could work).  A gun escalates the situation quickly and it may or may not need to escalate.  Sometimes you have a drunk who is confused and at the wrong house.  Or you have a young kid who is stoned and cold and was looking for a warm place to sleep.  But sometimes you have someone who intends you harm already.  Being able to keep the drunk who is at the wrong house, calm, is easier if he doesn't realize you have a gun.  So I'm fond of a five shot .357 pocket pistol.  The DA only versions have no hammer spur and won't catch on your pocket (or you can bob the hammer on a regular DA version).  If you want to cover the possibility of needing more range and more rounds (a doubtful necessity for self defense) then you can get an eight shot .357 revolver with a longer barrel.

If you have the money to spend, a laser sight is pretty instinctive (just keep in mind that lasers go in a straight line and bullets do not).
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 08:43:00 AM »

For a daily carry piece you'll want something light weight. After you add shells it becomes even heavier.
I went through several small guns until I found something that did not feel like a brick after 8 hours.
For pocket carry i like a SW 642 hammerless airweight, also like the Ruger LCP in 380.
Always keep the thing fully loaded. An empty gun does you no good.
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 12:01:48 PM »

Here's another vote for a revolver. There's very little that can go wrong. If you don't plan to shoot it enough to become familiar with the parts, that's a plus. 
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 12:04:36 PM »

For home protection for people with admittedly little experience, you do not need what you want.  What you need is a double barrel 12 guage coach gun with 20 inch barrels.  With 4 buckshot, you have 36 chances to be right.  

One does not point a gun unless you intend to use it and the sight of those two honest eyes at the end of the barrel will give wings to most every felons feet!  It also will be very forgiving of your lack of expertise by filling the whole hallway instead of a little circle less than half an inch accross.  No style points, it just works.  

If you want style points, additionally get a glock in .40 or your grandfathers 1911 .45  Nothing macho or overkill, if someone comes into your home at night and you assure yourself that it is not a kid or a friend---they can't be too dead.
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 01:12:40 PM »

I am going to echo what some others have already said with maybe a little different spin...

Some of your requirements actually exclude what I would recommend for home defense. If you absolutely insist on a hand gun then a revolver is truly the way to go for someone such as yourself. What do I mean by that? Certainly not an insult but you said you are a novice. The simple old wheel gun is going to take the least amount of training and it does not have all the risk of jams like a semi-auto would. Click, boom. That simple. Happen to get the rare dud round? Just pull the trigger again without any need to clear a jam. The long trigger pull will prevent accidental firing and you can find models that allow you to shoot in either single or double action. A semi-auto requires a lot more practice regardless of what anyone tells you. If you get one you better be prepared to go to the range with an instructor and practice failure drills and then continue to go back and practice often if this is what you are using for home defense. Even holding a semi wrong can cause a jam. The most common problem is "limp wristing" or not holding it firmly enough when firing. If you allow your hand to recoil back with the slide it will jam every time. I bought a couple guns cheap that had this "problem" and I have never had them jam for me. It is a result of training that you may or may not want to invest in but you can do it and it is worth it.  So for a revolver I would go with a .357 & then you can shoot either .357 or .38 in it. That is an advantage in ammo shortages like we have now. I can buy both .38 & .357 now but semi-auto ammo is sold out almost everywhere.

My true recommendation for you is a pump shotgun. You don't have to aim, you just point it in the general direction and it requires the least amount of practice. Why a pump and not a semi? Well everyone knows what it sounds like when you rack that slide. A bad guy is going the other direction fast and a family member is going to identify themself. It also makes you think about that second shot that you may regret later. Shots 2,3,4,5... come very quickly & easily with a semi-auto shotgun.

So if you want to protect your home from the random drug addict breaking in to rob you then I rocommend a 12 gauge pump under the bed and a .357 revolver hidden in the living room. If the threat is more serious and you are worried about an armed person or persons breaking in with intent to kill you then I recommend different weapons and A LOT of training & practice. One more thing you really need to consider is remote control for your house lighting. I have a remote by my bed that allows me to turn on or off lights in different parts of my house. If you break in to my house at night and the lights come on where you are standing and everything else is dark then you are in serious trouble. It is always good to identify your target.

Also remember that you want to avoid shooting someone if at all possible. I was once told by a lawyer that you should expect to pay about $10,000 in legal fees if you shoot someone and that is if the shooting is justified. I would expect that to be much higher where you live.

All of this is based on my training and personal experience as a former Major in the US Army and a current PA law enforcement officer. (and beekeeper  grin )

Good luck in whatever you decide and be careful what the experts tell you they use. Some "experts" forget that they are able to clear a double feed in their sleep but you may not be able to.

Scott
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 01:15:44 PM »


    Bringing a firearm into your home is a serious decision. What ever you decide to purchase , train, train, and more training. reason? In a panic situation, you will do what you have trained to do. Don't kid yourself into believing you are trained, know it! If your wife will have access to the firearm, she will train!
    As for what to buy. A revolver with speed loaders are ok, if you are going to walk around with the speed loaders in a pouch, on your belt. Easy access there, no problem. Fumbling around for speed loaders in a panic situation ends up badly. If a pistol is your choice, then I would go for the semi auto. Why? More rounds! While the 9mm would not be my first choice, it may be a good choice for the homeowner. Effective with little recoil. As for which auto? I like the Beretta 92fs. Reason? First, the decock feature makes for a nice safety. Second. in the event you end up in a physical struggle over the firearm, with one hand on the slide, you can render the firearm useless, then focus on beating the suspect with your fist. Many in law enforcement know this and prefer the Beretta for this reason.      
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