Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 30, 2014, 01:17:59 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Suggestions Please........  (Read 1151 times)
Old Blue
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 133

Location: San Diego CA


« on: May 11, 2013, 07:25:31 PM »

One of my hives is too hot  to handle.  I run all feral bees and am used to uppity bees that fill the air, but I now have a hive that attacks en mass.  During spring I normally insert two unbuilt frames into my brood nests every two weeks to keep them from swarming and to keep them in expansion and building mode. 

I have never had any difficulty doing this until now.  My demonic hive drives me out before I can get the first of 4 deeps off to get to the brood nest.  The bees just come pouring out and fill the air and start attacking my gloves en mass to a point that I just have to put it back together and leave.  I have a lot of experience running these and am privy to all the finer points of smoking, smoking and waiting etc.  Those are not the issue in this case.  I also know that the hive is not queenless.  There is simply a bad bug in there that I have to locate and apply the hive tool test on.

There is no way I can go through this colony frame by frame.  I wouldn't make it past the first 6 frames.  I am thinking of separating all 4 boxes with their own bottom and top boards and leaving them untill I can either go through every frame or wait to see which box has brood.  I think the brood option would take longer than I would like and longer than the owner of the land where I am keeping them may be willing to put up with.  I don't know what is going to happen to the queenless other 3 boxes during all this but I have to do something about this.

I have also heard that if I cage a queen and put her on the top of the frames that the resident queen will be there withing 10 or 15 minutes to kill her and I should be able to find her then.  Anybody know if thats true? 

This is a big hive and it is going to be difficult to handle.

Old Blue
Temporarily with a bigger problem than predatory government.  In..............................................................
Kali-bone-ya
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1189


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 07:39:00 PM »

Put Queen excluders between all the boxes.

Move the hive in the yard, put a empty hive where the old hive was with a new Queen.

The hot hive will only have Young bee that shouldn't bee as aggressive.

mvh Edward  tongue
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15030


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 07:56:09 PM »

sounds like a huge hive.  breaking it up might help. i like edwards suggestion.  when you do find that old queen, i'd pinch her and replace.  you may have some AHB genes in there too.  haven't heard much about that in SD, but 3 hours from you in AZ it's a problem for some.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5909

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2013, 09:54:17 PM »

I would break them down to four hives. Wait 5 days and the one without queen cells is the one she is in.
Do a Taranov swarm on that one and find her. Then requeen all four, or requeen one and remove all queen cells before combining into the number you want.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Steel Tiger
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 516

Location: Southern New Hampshire


« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 01:37:44 AM »

Requeening a Vicious Hive
Logged
10framer
Queen Bee
****
Online Online

Posts: 1461

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 09:46:55 AM »

sounds like a huge hive.  breaking it up might help. i like edwards suggestion.  when you do find that old queen, i'd pinch her and replace.  you may have some AHB genes in there too.  haven't heard much about that in SD, but 3 hours from you in AZ it's a problem for some.

i know a guy that lived in san diego up until about 15 years ago and he says they had ahb there then. 
they sound africanized to me. 
Logged
Old Blue
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 133

Location: San Diego CA


« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 11:23:20 PM »

Thanks Edward
That got me thinking in the right direction.  I only had two queen excluders.  I opted to move the hive to another stand splitting it into two hives.  I gave each of those two their own bottom board and lid and I put a queen excluder between the two boxes.
I put an empty set of two boxes of undrawn frames with top and bottom board where the hive used to be.
During the transfer of boxes to the other hive stand I got mobbed and had to stop a couple of times to blast heavy smoke on my feet and ankles and all over me.  That was scaring me because they had started going up my legs and stinging me around my ankles through my socks.  I also had to stop a couple of times because my gloves were coated with bees and I couldn’t handle anything.  All of this made it hard to concentrate on the order of stacking on the other stand – bottom board, box, queen excluder, box and lid and repeat.  Every time I put on a queen excluder or another box hundreds of bees were getting squished.  It really was incredible how many bees are in that hive. After all that I had to set up the empty hive in the original location.  As simple of a task as that is, it took all of my concentration to get it done as I was trying to squish bees crawling up my legs and could feel some getting into my crotch area.  I smoke blasted everything I could and transferred my stuff up the hill to flat ground and scrubbed as many followers off on a low hanging pine by walking through it which work pretty good.  I jumped in my car and drove home fast with my suit on and the windows down while squishing bees going up my legs and getting into my veil the whole way.  As I was driving I could feel my ankles, lips and eyes swelling up and I was having a hard time breathing.  When I got home 7-8 minutes later I told my wife as I walked through the house that I needed help and liquid benedryl.  As I took off my shoes and suit I was really glad to be out of that suit and dead bees fell all over the patio.  By that time my wife determined we didn’t have any benedryl and I said lets go get some fast I need it bad.  We made the two minute drive to the drug store and I jumped out as she parked and ran inside and told the pharmacist I needed liquid benedryl fast.  I found it opened it and started drinking it and finished half an 8 oz bottle on a empty and nervous stomach.  I was out of breath and feeling weak and sat down in a waiting chair and just started feeling really bad while my wife was yelling at the pharmacist that it was all childrens Benadryl and we needed the adult stuff.  She found a pack of adult pills and I took one and washed it down with the liquid benedryl.  About one minute later I started feeling like I was going to pass out and told my wife that I was going out.  I settled back as much as I could into the chair and dismissed the thought of laying on the floor and told my wife “I’m going” and I wondered what was going to happen.  I passed out.  I was in dream land and could feel my head moving around and the back of it contacting something and I came to laying on the floor with my wife doing something to me, I didn’t know what.  I told her I was OK and started to look around and see how I was feeling while people were looking at me and she was telling the 911 operator to just get the ambulance there and what was taking so long.  Every thing was in blurry time but I knew I was feeling way better than before I passed out but still weak.  The ambulance came took vitals, loaded me, and drove me to the hospital.  I was feeling about 50% better on the ride there and didn’t get out until around 10pm after they IVed two bags of water and some steroids.  Got home really tired and crashed but felt good enough to go to church in the morning.  Wow I don’t need any more of that!
None of this would have happened if I had secured my ankles.  I am going to install some kind of Velcro set up on my suit legs so that if I ever have to move another hive I can be 100% bee tight.  I am going to have to keep an epi pen now and I didn’t want to do that, oh wells.  The benedryl should be in every beekeepers yard, when you need it you need it.  The ambulance guys put an IV in my hand on the way in because they were worried about losing my veins, my BP was 70 something over 90 something.  I think that may have been what made me pass out.  The total dose was ~300mg plus what ever the pill was. 

Kathy,
that queen has to go.  As soon as I lay eyes on her shes going into a little jar of alcohol.

Iddee,
I didn’t have that many bottoms and tops but that was my initial inclination.  I don’t think I could of done a taranov with these wicked beasts.  I’m pretty sure I would of wound up with ¾ of the hive on my ankles legs hands and hood.  These things are just plain unmanageable.  Even after I get my ankles secured its still going to be scary.  As it is I don’t have a queen to put in the empty hive in the original location and I don’t know how this is going to work out.  I did the best I could under duress and it was all I could do.  I think I will wind up having to just gut it out and go through each of the two box hives frame by frame to find that queen and kill all the queen cells as I go, possibly recombine and add a frame off eggs from one of my merely uppity colonies.

Steel Tiger,
I wish I would have seen that video before I had gone out to the yard because that looks like the most logical way to handle the whole mess.  I had seen it before but had forgotten about it.  Is that Micheal Bush?  At any rate that video makes so much sense and makes it look easy.  Thanks much for the link, I wish I had seen it sooner.

10framer,
I believe that 70% of San Diego area hives are now Africanized.  I am sure that some or most of mine are.  But that said this is the only hive I have had with this kind of response.  Even so only about 10-15 bees followed me up the hill not counting the ones in my suit and boots.  If they had followed into my car I would have been in a real pickle.

I know the majority of you folks don’t deal with bees like this but just in case I now strongly believe everyone should have a bottle of liquid benedryl at their yard or in their car since some folks can have a reaction even if the have never had one before and it may be just what you need to give you enough time to get the help you need. 

Old Blue
Tired of typing for now.  In…………………………………………………………..
Kali-bone-ya
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1189


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 05:31:33 AM »

 cheer
Wow Glad to hear you survived, thanks to your wife, pharmacy, paramedics and the hospital  applause

I Had a bear eat a few hives, one of them survived after beeing half eaten, but they beecame mad little  evil

I put on my sweat pants and hooded sweat shirt under my beesuit and put my pant and beesuit legs in my boots, rubber boots work also, then the beekeepers friend (DUCKT tape) sealed things up  grin

I remember feeling the dread of getting in the ring with them  thunder

Next time you suit up I hope you can make Things bee tight so you can work the little  evil with confidence and they don't get you to bad  ninja

Never settle for angry bees when there are gentel bees that make beekeeping a pleasure!

wow!

mvh Edward  tongue
Logged
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5909

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 07:09:17 AM »

Glad you came out of it. With a hive that bad, I would place a handful of sulfur in the smoker and have it done with.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
tefer2
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2140

Location: Kalamazoo,MI


« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 08:00:23 AM »

Wow, scary story and I'm glad their not my bees. My attire for a hot hive is a full suit with knee high rubber boots. Have someone duct tape any areas that they may crawl into.
I would only have one try at a hive like that. Then on to iddee's method.
I wouldn't want her drones to be mating with my other queens.
We keep a bottle of liquid Benadryl in the glove box of all our vehicles.
Placing a mated caged queen on the top bars does work. It just takes some time for the old queen to find the source of the new smell.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 08:07:35 AM »

You are smoking them aren't you?  And not too much?

I would split and requeen all the splits.

http://bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 228

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 09:18:43 AM »

San Diego feral bees are AHB.  I picked up queens from a Central Valley breeder last night.  He relates that the commercial Avocado pollinators in SD *must* requeen yearly to keep the colonies workable. It is a major customer for his queen rearing operation.

Faced with a similar situation a couple of years ago, I got the advice (on this forum) to use a big block of dry ice.  It quickly suffocates the hive without affecting the honey stores.  The advice stated to use a garbage bag to contain the gas, but putting the block in a empty super on top and closing the entrance worked fine.  CO2 is heavier than atmosphere and fills from the bottom up.

The hive drones are carrying these genes, and the whole beeyard is going to get wound up. The bees are aggressively dominate over other bees in mating, and in robbing.

Requeening with very gentle bees might allow you to buffer the genetics of the feral population.

Get an epipen- get benadryl, keep a bottle everywhere.  The kids liquid is fine, since you are drinking the whole bottle. Really swig at the bottle in the case of a systemic allergy.    It  doesn't "cure" the situation, but will buy you 20 minutes to get emergency treatment from doctors.

 I also recently had a systemic reaction (not a severe as your example) and am struggling with the decision to give up the colonies.

And remember the "government" and the heroic paramedics saved your life.  911 and similar services are the hallmarks of civic society-- one that we pay for through taxes.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 10:24:10 AM by JWChesnut » Logged
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 10:00:41 AM »

Dang, I hope to never run into one like that.  Great video, truly shows what an aggressive hive looks like and how to handle them.  I haven't worn my beesuit in over 2 years except to a couple Halloween parties where my wife is the Queen bee and I'm the beekeeper.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.264 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page July 23, 2014, 06:06:35 PM
anything