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Author Topic: Threats to our rights  (Read 7834 times)
Fox Creek
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« on: May 11, 2013, 01:50:39 PM »



    A little more than a year ago, The Tea Party Patriots complained to the IRS. WE believed we were being targeted. The IRS denied any wrongdoing.
    Now the IRS has been forced to admit they had been targeting organizations, titled " Tea Party" or "Patriots".  WE were forced to produce to the IRS, documents to include, member names, emails to members, contributions by members, emails to congressmen and all the other demands the IRS makes to their victims. Do you see a problem here? Rights violated?
    The IRS has apologized, we say this is not enough.

       
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 02:09:31 PM »

it's not enough.  it doesn't matter that it's the tea party or any other group.  when you have an arm of the government singling out particular groups for special treatment, and there is no history of wrong doing by that group, you have a problem.

unchecked, the IRS has the power to make or break people and businesses. defy them and you can lose everything.  you can end up in jail.
They are now being given even more power, more info, and more people, by way of obama care.  while people are worried about drones, and invasion of privacy by way of their library records, the government has quietly grown the most terrifying enforcement agency it has...
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 03:59:31 PM »

... unchecked, the IRS has the power to make or break people and businesses.

True!

Some of you think that I am bitter for attacking the Tea Party Patriots.  I am not.  I want them to succeed. Well maybe.  At a recent political meeting I walked in on a group of Pee Party Patriots who were discussing the suitability of certain people for elective and appointed office in a political organization based on which Christian denomination they belong.

Because it is usually better to let fools blather on that to call them on their foolishness and force them to shut their foolish yaps till their alone, I just stood there in stunned silence and listened.  Several fundamentalist denominations were vetted as acceptable but many old line Christian denominations like First Methodist, First Baptist etc were condemned as not "Tea Party" enough. 

What ever the IRS did or did not do in so far as auditing the Tea Party, the Tea Party or at least the membership of the Tea Party (which claims that it has no membership) are in violation of....

Article IV  Paragraph 3  of the very US Constitution that they so piously claim to believe in and support.... NOT!!!

Jim DeMint, read um and weep in your Earl Gray or Lipton.

Article IV Paragraph 3:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. 

Members of the several parties are usually elected in State run and sponsored primaries as long as there are more pols wanting to be members of the Democrat or Republican parties etc. than there are slots open on their respective executive committees.  If the pol running doesn't have opposition in the primary their names won't appear on the ballot but they are legally on the ballot none the less.  This makes the conduct described above a blatant as well as a direct and a deliberate violation of the Constitution of the United States of America.  
I wanted to ask them "Why not just cross yourselves and shout Sieg Heil?

I know that they mean well but it sounds to me like these people have falling into the same trap the Shea, Sunni, and several other sects of Mohammedanism have fallen into, the deep, dark, and deadly pit of religious intolerance.  The above conduct is not the only instance of illegal as well as pure ignorance personified I witnessed at this political meeting but enough of the real truth at this time.

I am seldom wrong on these matters, but I will predict that in another 5 or 10 years that saying "Tea Party" in public will get you the same laughs and sniggers that a naked chicken earned Grouch Marks.  The Tea Party must change and change soon by purging people like the ones I described above if the Tea Party is to ever be anything other than a joke.     
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 04:16:04 PM »

you are confusing two different subjects and making some non-relevant points.

1st, and again, the Tea Party, is not a party.  It's many groups MOST of them interested in constitutional issues and taxes.  that said, the name has been attached to many groups, so...you dropped in on one that you didn't like and judged them all by that group?  that's kind of odd....and not to bright....to be honest.

Quote
Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

doesn't apply.  this has to do with elections, not selections.  if certain groups want to support people based on their religious beliefs, they are free to do so. 

don't know what you have against DeMint, or what he has to do with any of this.  seems like a gratuitous slam?

Quote
Members of the several parties are usually elected in State run and sponsored primaries as long as there are more pols wanting to be members of the Democrat or Republican parties etc. than there are slots open on their respective executive committees.  If the pol running doesn't have opposition in the primary their names won't appear on the ballot but they are legally on the ballot none the less.  This makes the conduct described above a blatant as well as a direct and a deliberate violation of the Constitution of the United States of America. 
I wanted to ask them "Why not just cross yourselves and shout Sieg Heil?

again, no. 
Quote

The Tea Party must change and change soon by purging people like the ones I described above if the Tea Party is to ever be anything other than a joke. 
   

there is no "The Tea Party, but i think you have other issues...makes me wonder if you didn't seek out this group so that you could go off on some anti-religious screed, and it calls into question your account of the events.   





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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 04:51:26 PM »

    

    I have been with the Tea Party Patriots for quite awhile. Have sat in on many conferences. I'm constantly emailed currant info. I have NEVER!!! seen or heard anything close to what you accuse.
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 04:55:40 PM »

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I have NEVER!!! seen or heard anything close to what you accuse.

i get some emails and stuff even though i never joined any group.  i have never seen anything like that either.  i do know that some churches formed "tea party" groups.  maybe that's what he got into.  no idea what they were about....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 06:43:15 PM »

...

you are confusing two different subjects...

1st, and again, the Tea Party, is not a party....


In that case kathyp, the Tea Party doesn't have a leg to stand or any beef with the IRS investigating a Party or organization that is non existent.

...
It's many groups MOST of them interested in constitutional issues and taxes.


Please make up your mind.  Either the Tea Party isn't a political party or organized political group of people like you said it is, or else the Tea Party is a political party or organized group of people like you just said it isn't.  You are posting contradictory information.  Which is it?

Is the Tea Party a political party party? Or is the Tea Party a non political party party?  You can't have it both ways.  This is just a childish attempt by the Tea Party (likely out of embarrassment) to hide the identity of the people who are non member members of the very real non existent Tea Party party.

I don't blame them, after I spent two years of going to Tea Party meetings every month and calling myself a Tea Party Member anyone can see that they have the dreaded "Chicken with its head cut off" disease.

The Tea Party people in my previous post are members of a Republican Executive Committee to which I belong and they are also Tea Party Patriot members non members to a very real non existent Tea Party party all of them in good standing.  After years and years of fighting the old Yellow Dog Democrat political machine these people are going to destroy Conservatism because the Conservative political party (The GOP) is being unfairly tarred and feathered with Tea Party hot tar dished out by the Democrat Party.

In the Gospel of Luke I think it was, there is a parable from the lips of Jesus about a duplicous business manger who cheated his employer.  An employer I might add to which this manager pledged his fidelity.  The moral of this story is that you can not serve two masters.  You will either despise one master (the GOP in this case) and love the other (the Tea Party) or it must be visa verse.  It is way past time for the Tea Party to either fish or cut political bait.  

Everyone should remember that Obama is not the President who trampled the constitution the worst.  That award goes to Thomas Woodrow Wilson who was first elected President in 1912 (almost 100 years ago) because of a third or non political party political party , the Bull Moose Party which like the Tea Party non party today often refuses to support the GOP candidates and falls instead for a cult figure with the electability of Judas Iscariot.  Todd Akin is one example of many.  In politics there is no reward for being correct, the only reward is getting your candidates elected, period, end of discussion.  If you don't like it get over it, it is still the truth, live with it!!!

There is no evidence from 1914 that President Taft was a Reactionary.  There is however instance after instance where Taft continued or expanded TR's policies.  To even think about saying otherwise is a left wing PC revision or even perversion of history and it is proof that you have had the liberal wool pulled over your eves by the PC establishment.

Here's an example of the political bundling that landed TWW in the White House and also resulted in the formation of the Obama piggy bank we know today as The FED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._House

http://www.truthcontrol.com/edward-m-house

"Very soon, every American will be required to register their biological property [that's you and your children] in a national system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging. By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will affect our security as a charge back for our fiat paper currency. Every American will be forced to register or suffer NOT being able to work and earn a living. They will be our chattels [property] and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law-merchant under the scheme of secured transactions.

Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading [Birth Certificate] to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, secured by their pledges. They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debts to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges. This will inevitably reap us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor to this fraud, which we will call “Social Insurance.”[Social Security] Without realizing it, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and we will employ the high office [presidency] of our dummy corporation [US] to foment this plot against America."
Edward M. House Woodrow Wilson's and FDR's confidant.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 03:18:32 PM by kingbee » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 07:37:58 PM »

Quote
In that case kathyp, the Tea Party doesn't have a leg to stand or any beef with the IRS investigating a Party or organization that is non existent.

i don't think you quite understood the complaint

Quote
Either the Tea Party isn't a political party or organized political group of people like you said it is, or else the Tea Party is a political party or organized group of people like you just said it isn't.  You are posting contradictory information.  Which is it?

there is no contradiction in what i said.  it's not a political party.  it's a loose affiliation of mostly like minded people.  like minded on things like taxes and constitutional issues.  i think you are confused because there is the word 'party' in the name?

Quote
unfairly tarred and feathered with Tea Party hot tar dished out by the Democrat Party.

this is new how?

i'm not sure what your idea of a conservative is.  i don't care what the dems want to make of something.  

you have gone off on another rant and i can't keep up.  if you don't like the people you are hanging out with, go find some new people.  i guess i'm not getting what your problem is except you seem worried what dems will think.  they will always find something so why worry about it?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 09:29:43 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
L Daxon
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 08:20:58 PM »

Kathy, as usual, is right and Kingbee is wrong.

(But by way of full disclosure, I did talk to Jim DeMint 3 days ago.)
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linda d
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2013, 10:17:01 PM »

... I have been with the Tea Party Patriots for quite awhile. Have sat in on many conferences. I'm constantly emailed currant info. I have NEVER!!! seen or heard anything close to what you accuse.

I don't accuse anything, I only relate live verbal and I might add open communications.  If they contradict what you are told by people who I don't know, I can't help that.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 11:18:55 PM »

Kingbee is wrong.

LOL, Kingbee you're slipping my friend  laugh laugh laugh

I wonder what conservative group the IRS will target next?  Bee keepers?
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Better.to.Bee.than.not
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 02:02:37 AM »

I am proud to be Tea Party, and a republican.....To be targeted by the IRS merely because of a name association, is totally inexcusable and the only reason they ever copped up to it, is because the media got a hold of the story and they knew it, so were given the chance to make the release before it was released to the public or they would still be doing it (and they may even still be doing it now.) This is pure political harassment, obviously....that being said ...isn't this a bee forum?
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 09:27:53 AM »

Better., it is, but you found the coffee house.  this is the place for non-bee stuff.  we have this so that we don't have these little discussions in the middle of bee business.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 03:44:26 PM »

I am proud to be Tea Party, and a republican.....

So am I.  I might add beginning with the Eisenhower-Stevenson campaign of 1952.  However the people I mentioned in this post are nucking futs and this is not the only either illegal or non-legal idea that they came up with or discussed implementing at this informal meeting or work session.

I suspect that your lack of any similar knowledge in this matter goes back to I think it was the Coolidge Adminstration when the most humorous President in American History Silent Cal, noted that:

"Everyone in America is doing well. 
I know this because every American I come into contact with is doing well. 
Because if they are not doing well I don't come into contact with them." grin  Undecided
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 08:32:44 AM »

And then they go taking phone records of news agencies with no justification given...

http://news.yahoo.com/govt-probe-obtains-wide-swath-ap-phone-records-073716744.html
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 07:18:01 AM »

a snip..
Please make up your mind.  Either the Tea Party isn't a political party or organized political group of people like you said it is, or else the Tea Party is a political party or organized group of people like you just said it isn't.  You are posting contradictory information.  Which is it?

Is the Tea Party a political party party? Or is the Tea Party a non political party party?  You can't have it both ways.  This is just a childish attempt by the Tea Party (likely out of embarrassment) to hide the identity of the people who are non member members of the very real non existent Tea Party party.

tecumseh...
and some folks have no problem speaking out of both sides of their mouth with out recognizing their own hypocrisy.  I would suggest that if your purpose is purely political then the IRS has all kinds of reasons to throughly look into your tax exempt APPLICATION throughly no matter if you are right, left or middle of the road politically.  The other overlooked FACTS is that the people largely funding these organization seem to have a long history of buying politicians that they know they can control without ever showing their own face to the public.  This essentially becomes just another means to buy certain politicians with no public exposure and still have the right to write the contribution (no matter how large) off of your income tax as a deduction.

I myself think it would be much more simple to look into any and all federal tax deductions and simply eliminate some of these outright.   
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 02:02:10 PM »

Quote
I would suggest that if your purpose is purely political then the IRS has all kinds of reasons to throughly look into your tax exempt APPLICATION throughly no matter if you are right, left or middle of the road politically.  The other overlooked FACTS is that the people largely funding these organization seem to have a long history of buying politicians that they know they can control without ever showing their own face to the public.  This essentially becomes just another means to buy certain politicians with no public exposure and still have the right to write the contribution (no matter how large) off of your income tax as a deduction.

if you were following the story, which always seems to be to much trouble for you, you'd know that the issue is not examining the legitimacy of the application, but that they were breaking the law.

there are laws.  the laws were not followed.  the excesses were applied to only one set of people, so you can't even argue that the IRS agents were overzealous in their work.

i hope you are not suggesting that it's OK for the IRS to use it's power to go after specific groups or individuals
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 02:22:25 PM »

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/the-irs-wants-you-to-share-everything-91378.html

and this only goes over some of the more recent stuff. things have been leaked out of the IRS for the last few years.  things that should not have been made public.

- ProPublica, a Pulitzer Prize-winning progressive journalism group -- which said the same Cincinnati IRS branch accused of targeting conservative groups released nine confidential applications of conservative groups to them last year.

Many questioned the statement and pointed to a 2010 incident involving Austan Goolsbee, Obama’s former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. Goolsbee told reporters on Aug. 27, 2010 that Koch Industries, a billion-dollar energy company run by the politically influential Koch brothers, paid no income taxes.

The tax records of Koch Industries -- a private company – would not have been public information and therefore should not have been known to Goolsbee. At the time, the Obama team backpedaled and said the information was made public in two places – which turned out to be untrue. Then the Obama administration said Goolsbee had misspoken and that he had guessed the company’s confidential tax information.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/14/Obama-campaign-co-chair-attacked-Romney-conservative-group-in-2012-with-leaked-IRS-scandal-documents

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/14/new-irs-scandal-echoes-agency-problems-past/#ixzz2TNzn8KWe

then there's Joe the Plumbers info that was released.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324715704578478851998004528.html
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 02:30:00 PM »

one more little gem i found
http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/surprise-irs-boss-who-targeted-tea-party-and-jewish-groups-investigated-anti-clinton-groups-in-the-1990s/

    Steven T. Miller, the acting IRS commissioner who managed the division that has admitted targeting anti-Obama Tea Party groups, was one of several agents who investigated anti-Clinton organizations including Judicial Watch during that Democrat’s administration, according to court documents and interviews.

    Miller, who headed the IRS Services and Enforcement Division from 2009 until the end of last year, is named in court documents as part of a trio of Internal Revenue Service officials who allegedly characterized the 1998-2001 investigation of Judicial Watch as politically motivated.

    According to court papers, one agent in the case reportedly told the legal watchdog group, “What do you expect when you sue the president?“ Miller reportedly added that the Judicial Watch audit, coming after the group sent the White House a lengthy Freedom of Information Act request, “had created at least the appearance of a problem.“

    At the time, several groups probing various Clinton administration scandals were being audited, leading to charges that the president was manipulating the IRS to target his enemies.

    While written evidence was hard to come by at the time, the current Obama scandal is detailed in a forthcoming audit and a timeline provided by the House Ways and Means Committee, which has been probing the issue. A section of the committee timeline provided to Secrets mentions Miller:
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 06:07:12 PM »

...
tecumseh... some folks have no problem speaking out of both sides of their mouth with out recognizing their own hypocrisy.  I would suggest that if your purpose is purely political then the IRS has all kinds of reasons to thoroughly look into your tax exempt APPLICATION thoroughly no matter if you are right, left or middle of the road politically....


Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth……!!
Then there are the facts surrounding The Barrack H. Obama Foundation supposedly with its headquarters in Virginia.  It is ran by the President's 1/2 brother Malik Obama who is living in Kenya. Both the BHO Foundation and Malik Obama has been accused of fraud. 

The money the BHO Foundation collects is supposed to be used to help the poor, sick, and lame back on the Old Sod in Kenya.  The BHO Foundation was investigated for fraud because none of the money was going where Malik Obama claimed that it was.  Then it was discovered that the BHO Foundation did not have a Non Profit Tax Exempt ID number.  Once this all came to light the Internal Revenue Service issued The Barrack H. Obama Foundation a Non Profit Tax Exempt number in a little under 30 days, and besides that the IRS itself backdated Malik Obama's application by years from 2011 all the way back to 2008 in a childish and illegal attempt to cover up the fraud for Malik and his brother. 

Now it has come to light that the Barrack H. Obama Foundation's address in Virginia is a fraud as well, but I guess the IRS just has to spend so much of its time shinning the light of day on Conservative Tax Exempt groups that the poor neglected Left wing ones are forced to fly in the dark of night and navigate the law by the seat of their pants with little or no IRS oversight.  Is this what you mean by, "no matter if you are right, left or middle." (?)  I don't think that it is, and I don't think that you believe that it is either.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55193

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