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Author Topic: Queen Excluders or Not  (Read 1654 times)
gottabee
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« on: December 20, 2005, 09:35:38 AM »

I have heard several opinions on the use of queen excluders. Some prominant beekeepers in my area run with and without. I do not understand if you do not use an excluder between the hive bodies and supers, what would keep the queen from laying in the honey supers. Seems this could be a problem if you want to extract the honey. Am I missing something?
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Finsky
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2005, 12:45:01 PM »

Quote from: gottabee
I have heard several opinions ..what would keep the queen from laying in the honey supers. Seems this could be a problem if you want to extract the honey. Am I missing something?


I have not used excluder 40 years. Queen lay eggs in lower part. It need 2-3 brood boxes.

Professionals use excluder in many ways. I have not seen reasonable explanation, why and when. I have heard some methods in different meaning. Amateurs use excluder often without brains, just use.

At late summer it is easy to drop queen down with larva frames if it goes to lay eggs upstairs and you just put excluder near the end of summer. And you may move light color brood frames down and black ones pup, so you may take black ones from usage.

In many cases excluder devides the hive into two parts. Some beekeepers cannot live without excluder. It is the most valuable thing in whole system like star in front of Mercedes Benz.
I have tried to catch some special honey but it cannot be ordered.
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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2005, 03:18:02 PM »

Look here

http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjaug85.htm
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gottabee
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2005, 05:05:16 PM »

A local bee breeder in the area says if you dont use an excluder you get "bee bread" in your honey. I dont know unless he is talking about pollen or something. Is it a problem?
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amymcg
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2005, 05:55:32 PM »

Alot of beekeepers have a problem with acceptance. Often the bees hesitate to draw the comb above the excluder.  

Once beek told me to put the box with foundations on with the excluder on top of it. After they start to draw the box out, then move the excluder underneath. At that point the bees will want to finish what they started, and the exluder will smell like the hive.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2005, 08:11:32 PM »

>if you do not use an excluder between the hive bodies and supers, what would keep the queen from laying in the honey supers.

If she does it's because she's out of room.  The bees dont' want to scatter brood all over, so if she layi in the supers she needs somewhere to lay.  Would you rather she would swarm?
 
>I have not used excluder 40 years. Queen lay eggs in lower part. It need 2-3 brood boxes.

He's got me beat.  I haven't sued them for 30 years.
 
>A local bee breeder in the area says if you dont use an excluder you get "bee bread" in your honey. I dont know unless he is talking about pollen or something.

Yes, he is talking about pollen.

> Is it a problem?

I just extracted a lot of honey for a guy who uses excluders on all his hives.  There was more pollen in his supers than mine without.  So no, it's not a problem.
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Michael Bush
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2005, 09:46:27 PM »

In 3 brood box system:

-  the lowest box has  usually  most  of pollen. It is too cold at summer to lay eggs because bottom entrance is wide open for honey flow.

- Next 2 and 3 there is pollen beside the of brood area.
- In supers there is pollen not at all or brood.
- often they bees have pollen frame in front of upper entrance. I think that it is good place to unload their sacs and feeder bees get easily their  food.
- at autumn before winter they eat most of pollen .

When honey flow is over, you may put the excluder so bees emerge from frames where is honey and brood are in lowest box. But I have got bad results from this.  Too small hives for winter.
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Apis629
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 05:34:07 PM »

I harvested honey in october and out of ten frames only four cells had pollen. After filtration through two layers of cheese-cloth, there was no noticeable discoloration/foggeyness in the honey.  The way I see it is just put the excluder on about 4 weeks prior to harvest.  What I like to do is let the bees draw foundation un-interuppted, if I find eggs in a super I'd smoke the queen down(I've not yet run into that sutiuation).  The way I see it, you only need an excluder if you have a "Super Productive" queen(filling boxes unbeleivably) a weak honeyflow but, constant brood rearing or if you like to "bottom super".
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