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Author Topic: Trapout #2  (Read 1956 times)
Moots
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« on: May 10, 2013, 12:19:54 PM »

Got a tip on a Bee tree, really wasn't that interested in messing with it, but the guy told me if I wasn't interested the homeowner was going to poison them.  So, I decided to take a look...

Turns out it was an excellent candidate for a trapout....It wasn't "too" far, about 8 miles from my house.  The tree appears relatively solid, so short of the hole the bees are using, I don't think they have another entry/exit points.  And lastly, their entry hole is about a foot off the ground.

Considering these pluses and the fact that I didn't want to see them get exterminated...I decided to go for it.  I had removed a small swarm earlier in the day yesterday, so I decided to use that as my Nuc on this project.  I'm not really sure how that'll work out, but we'll see.

Video of the bee tree before installing trapout! 

Trapout in Place!
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 12:30:00 PM »

Looks like a nice hive, Moots. Shame you will not be able to get any eggs or the queen from this hive, beeing a trap out.
Jim
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Moots
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 12:45:15 PM »

Looks like a nice hive, Moots. Shame you will not be able to get any eggs or the queen from this hive, beeing a trap out.
Jim

Same exact thing I was thinking Jim...Very active, super gentle....wouldn't have minded being able to capture those genetics.

But hey, you can just do what you can do.  I'm hoping they supplement the small swarm I caught and give them a leg up and help them to make it.  As I said...we'll see.  But hoping for the best!  grin
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 12:52:22 PM »

Looks very FUN! Please keep us posted on the progress! David.
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM »

Looking good, Moots!  Keep us posted!   th_thumbsupup
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 03:13:51 PM »

You have to bee the busiest first year beekeeper ever... Lol good luck with both of your trap outs and keep us posted brother...  grin
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 06:10:51 PM »

Hummm. Did you read all of idee's trap out instructions well?  Looks like you missed the same thing I did.
The sealant should be 100% silicone if not they will chew out where you don't want them to. 
Be on the lookout for this.
( I know because my first ones ate a tube of caulk. )
Bailey
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 06:12:46 PM »

And if you want the genetics hang a swarm trap in the area.   When the queen and remaining bees swarm out you have a shot at getting them.. Wink
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 06:34:11 PM »

And if you want the genetics hang a swarm trap in the area.   When the queen and remaining bees swarm out you have a shot at getting them.. Wink

Bailey,
Thanks for the swarm trap suggestion...that should have been a no brainer, but i hadn't thought about it.....great suggestion.

As for the sealant issue...I did know that and have read that they will chew through the Great Stuff...However, in both of my cases the gaps needing to be filled were pretty significant.  Almost to the point where it would have been cost prohibitive to use Silicone.  Smiley   So, I guess you could say it was a calculated risk on my part. laugh

I did go with a rather generous application, so if they're going to chew through it, I'm going to make them earn it.  laugh

My first ones been in place for 6 days and it hasn't been a problem to this point...So, I'll keep my fingers crossed and see how it works out.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 06:54:30 PM »

I may have missed the point so bare with me. Did you get the swarm that you believe to be from the trap out tree ? If so did you put them in the nuc at your trap out stand ? If you have a laying queen in the trap out hive and full size boxes if you think there are many bees in the tree, the hive will have all that is needed to become a booming hive. As for the great stuff being chewed through, try to get some cheap steel wool and stretch it out in the gap and then spray the foam and they will not breach it the next time you do a irregular surface with big gaps.
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Moots
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2013, 08:23:51 PM »

I may have missed the point so bare with me. Did you get the swarm that you believe to be from the trap out tree ? If so did you put them in the nuc at your trap out stand ? If you have a laying queen in the trap out hive and full size boxes if you think there are many bees in the tree, the hive will have all that is needed to become a booming hive. As for the great stuff being chewed through, try to get some cheap steel wool and stretch it out in the gap and then spray the foam and they will not breach it the next time you do a irregular surface with big gaps.

Sparky,
No, the swarm is not from the trap out tree...it's an unrelated swarm that I collected from one of our local chemical plants earlier in the day. It was a fairly small swarm but I figured if I can get them to join forces I can kill two birds with one stone.  I wont have to bother with trying to get them to grow a queen while saving a small swarm which may have otherwise had a tough time without additional numbers.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2013, 12:02:06 AM »

Something I don't understand. Why would you want the genetics of the queen in the tree if you think a small nuc with a swarm already in it will hold all her bees? If I thought she was even near a decent queen, I would think she would have enough bees to fill a full box.

PS. I have never set a trap with a nuc.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Moots
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2013, 12:41:38 AM »

Something I don't understand. Why would you want the genetics of the queen in the tree if you think a small nuc with a swarm already in it will hold all her bees? If I thought she was even near a decent queen, I would think she would have enough bees to fill a full box.

PS. I have never set a trap with a nuc.

iddee,
I'm approaching 4 months as a Beek and you're at 37 years experience....I'm pretty confident I'm not going to be explaining anything to you concerning bees!  laugh

Anyway, I don't have a good explanation, but I'll give you the only one I have...

As I said, I wasn't even sure I wanted to mess with the bee tree, but given there next option was extermination, I figured anything I did was better than nothing...Even if that meant only saving some of them.

It was at the end of a long days work, followed by grass cutting and a few other household chores.  I grabbed what I had available and ran out there to try and get it setup before it got to late.  

While I suspect the queen has good genetics, being able to capture her was not my primary goal.  If I understood your trapout video correctly, genetics isn't a good reason to do a trapout because you only get the queen 1% to 3% of the time.

I figured at a bare minimum i'd pack the Nuc with bees and achieve two goals.  First, give the small swarm I had captured earlier that day some numbers which would give them a better chance of making it.  And second, save at least, how ever many bees it happened to take to finish filling that Nuc.

Assuming they fill the Nuc, I always thought I could just remove that box and add another box to the trapout...something else I thought I understood from your video....taking multiple boxes of bees off a single trapout.  Is this not an option?

Lastly, concerning your P.S...that you've never done a trapout with a Nuc.  I thought the trapout you did in the Bud3 video was setup with a Nuc....but maybe I'm mistaken.

Regardless, what should be obvious to you and everyone else is I'm doing this on the fly, and as best I can.  Partly for the fun of it, partly to gain some experience, and partly to try and save a few bees!  I'm pretty sure I'll accomplish one or two of those, quite possibly all three.  Honestly, I don't have any real expectations beyond that for this trapout.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 06:09:21 AM by Moots » Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2013, 07:57:54 AM »

Moots, I was being somewhat fecitious while still getting a point across. Bud 3 was staged. The trap was taken down the same day. I have used a nuc for the second, third, or fourth box, but never the first. I have noticed most traps posted this year are using nucs, and I just can't figure why.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2013, 09:19:12 AM »

Great Stuff sucks for a trapout for sure Moots! As Bailey said the bees chew right trough it to get back in and tried it on a tree last year and those girls got back in the next day. The surface looks good to seal it with a siliconized caulking as mine was a nightmare in the fork of the tree and wind up doing a cutout beings the homeowner was taking the tree out. Happy trapout to ya!  grin
Blanc
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Moots
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 09:21:54 AM »

Moots, I was being somewhat fecitious while still getting a point across. Bud 3 was staged. The trap was taken down the same day. I have used a nuc for the second, third, or fourth box, but never the first. I have noticed most traps posted this year are using nucs, and I just can't figure why.

iddee,
Basically two reasons....
1) I just plain didn't know any better lau
2) It was just a whole lot more convenient on a number of levels.  I already had the small swarm in it.  It was easier to transport and mount, since it's a little smaller and doesn't have a detachable bottom board.

blanc,
Yeah, as I said, I was aware of the possibility of them chewing through the Great Stuff....File that decision also under number 2 above.  laugh  It was just a whole lot easer to use it, I realize I might get bit by that decision and my hast might make waste.   grin  But so far, it seems to be working for me.  Granted, it's early on, but we'll see.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 09:55:37 AM »

Moots, I was being somewhat fecitious while still getting a point across. Bud 3 was staged. The trap was taken down the same day. I have used a nuc for the second, third, or fourth box, but never the first. I have noticed most traps posted this year are using nucs, and I just can't figure why.

iddee,
Basically two reasons....
1) I just plain didn't know any better lau
2) It was just a whole lot more convenient on a number of levels.  I already had the small swarm in it.  It was easier to transport and mount, since it's a little smaller and doesn't have a detachable bottom board.
blanc,
Yeah, as I said, I was aware of the possibility of them chewing through the Great Stuff....File that decision also under number 2 above.  laugh  It was just a whole lot easer to use it, I realize I might get bit by that decision and my hast might make waste.   grin  But so far, it seems to be working for me.  Granted, it's early on, but we'll see.  Smiley
Your one advantage over mine is the trapout tube into the hive body is deterring them from gathering around the hole and trying to enter back in thru the box. Might work for you and I did not have the option on the trapout I tried. By the way the tree that the guy was supposed to take out last year is still there with a bunch of holes in it and they may have walked away from the property as it looked abandoned. The tree was up against a trailer and not too healthy. Having said that get the homeowner to sign a release of responsibility agreement if you run into something like it. Wink
Blanc
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Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
iddee
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 10:29:29 AM »

My 10 frame deeps don't have detachable bottom boards.   grin   grin

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=33323331333333373331 
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Moots
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 10:55:19 AM »

My 10 frame deeps don't have detachable bottom boards.   grin   grin


Had I known that iddee, I might have made a quick run over to North Carolina and borrowed one!   Wink
Although, that probably would have violated my second point from above...that of convenience.  laugh

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 11:43:23 AM »

Doesn't sound like you clicked the link.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Moots
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 11:54:25 AM »

Doesn't sound like you clicked the link.

iddee,
I most certainly did click the link...and have seen the hive staples offered by Kelley's before but have never owned any.

Again, I guess I could have spent $5.50 on hive staples plus another 5 or 6 bucks on shipping....Sat around a few days waiting for the UPS man to deliver them, attach a bottom board to a hive box, transfer my small swarm, and use that instead of my Nuc.  However, my Nuc is a 6 frame medium, my hive boxes are 8 frame mediums...that sure seems like a lot of extra added hassle and work to gain two frames of space.  

Again, I go back to my 2nd point, I'm not arguing that any of my decisions can be classified as trapout best practices.  I'm simply saying they were the most convenient and worked best for my particular situation.  I'm sure others mileage will vary.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2013, 02:30:17 PM »

Hey Moots,
Cleo Hogan talks about taking a frame of sealed brood out to the trapout to try and get the queen to come and see whose laying in her house.
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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2013, 09:30:08 PM »

Moots, all that you did was fine. I'm just trying to get you prepared for the next time. You may not always have a nuc to strengthen, or you may need another box on this trap for the remainder of the bees. Now is the time to get prepared for the future.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Moots
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2013, 05:42:43 PM »

Moots, all that you did was fine. I'm just trying to get you prepared for the next time. You may not always have a nuc to strengthen, or you may need another box on this trap for the remainder of the bees. Now is the time to get prepared for the future.


Along the lines of iddee trying to keep me straight....Thought I'd give a brief update to this trapout as well as pose some "where do I go from here" questions.  Smiley

Put this trapout in place Thursday night, Friday and Saturday morning were pretty much a non-stop rain event, but it's been nice weather since then.   Took this picture at lunch today.  As you can see I have a nice gathering of bees on the box as well as a steady flow in and out the box.  Saw a few bees exiting the cone during the 5 or 10 minutes I was there, but not as many as I would have expected on such a pretty day.  Glad to say it appears there's been no breach of the "Great Stuff" sealant and no signs of any other entry/exit points.

Since I used a small captured swarm in my bait box, and assuming it has a virgin queen...I'm trying to decide when exactly I want to have a look in the box.  Trying to find that sweet spot between giving her a chance to be mated and start laying and avoiding what iddee warned me of, having more bees than my box can hold. I did get a little history of the hive from a parish worker at the park right next door.  From what he tells me, the hive is 3 years old, for whatever that's worth.

So, thoughts on when I should take a look? 
If I find signs of a laying queen...excellent.  If I don't, I'll add a frame of eggs from an existing hive.  Either way, I'm thinking I'll leave this box in place until full.
Then what?  Really not interested in growing a new queen and starting yet another hive at this time.  I've pretty much got my newbie hands full..So what's my options?

 - Figure I saved the majority of the bees, remove the cone and tell the homeowner do what he has to do?

 - Transfer the bees to a hive box and keep it in place? (not sure I'm willing to hassle with this...?)

 - Move the full Nuc, but put a new empty to continue to catch bees and on occasion (i.e. every few days?) use them to supplement my existing hives.  Not sure this is       really an option.  Will they enter and remain in a box without a queen or brood to hold them?

 - Have a local bee club meeting tomorrow night, might offer anyone interested the opportunity to supply their own box and continue the trapout.

As you can tell....I'm all over the place, suggestions welcomed.  Smiley

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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2013, 07:20:38 PM »

I would gently lift the lid from the rear and see how many frames are covered with bees. When all spaces have bees, I would switch to a 10 frame hive without an entrance reducer.  Then you can peer into the entrance and see how many frames have bees.

Put another nuc with eggs up there when you remove this one. Let them raise a queen and when it is ready, put it on Craig's list for 100 to 125. I'm sure you can find a place to store the cash.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 09:01:37 PM »

I like idee's suggestion. Another option is to put a single layer of newspaper over any hive or nuc you want to build to a strong hive and a matching box. Then transfer the bees and frames from this trapout box to the box over the paper and fill with frames and walk away. You can cut a small slit in the paper with a utility knife to help them get started chewing a opening to combine.
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