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Author Topic: Swarm & Supercedure cells in a nuc  (Read 1237 times)
Elbill
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« on: May 14, 2013, 06:15:03 PM »

Added two nucs purchased from a migratory beekeeper April20 . Checked today both are filled with capped brood,larvae and eggs. One had 3 swarm cells with large larvae on the frame bottom and several supersede cells mid foundation. Did not spot the queen. It appears that the queen exceeded the wax building.  The bee population is a little low. I was going to scrape the cells off but thought better of it since I have time to ask some questions and think a little. There is still undrawn wax on the outer frames and I have been feeding them. Both nucs are similar in development and I was very pleased with them when I put them in my hive bodies.I was thinking about putting in a drawn frame and see if I can get some eggs laid, fast. There are too few bees in there to swarm now but in a few weeks it would be quite strong and could take off leaving me another problem for the next winter. Any thoughts?
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Caelansbees
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 11:37:56 PM »

I don't kill queen cells unless I know where the queen is and usually only when trying to introduce a new queen.  Especially if they are everywhere. 

I have also had old beekeepers give me splits so strong that when I slacked they swarmed right out of a 5 frame in 2 days!
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 11:59:14 PM »

. There are too few bees in there to swarm now but in a few weeks it would be quite strong and could take off leaving me another problem for the next winter. Any thoughts?
I don't know how you can say that. My observation hive had 2 deep frames full of brood and pollen and capped honey around the edge. It had barely started to fill 2 of the 6 mediums above that. This queen was hatched after the OB hive completely filled all three deep frames late last summer. March 6 of this year, that queen suddenly swarmed. Hive had only 2 deep frames with bees and 6 empty medium frames above and it swarmed. She left eggs and a queen cup. It was almost a months before we had new queen and another week before she started laying eggs. She ended up laying a large area of eggs but by this time the bees were dying off at a high rate and they had very few bees to care for the brood.the visible bees were about 60 or so. It took a long time for them to recover. It now has a football size brood area on only one visible frame side. She has not gone back to the other side and laid eggs. If this had been a normal out door hive they would not have survived.
Remember the bees never read the bees books. They do not know what the rules are.
Jim
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tecumseh
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 06:29:20 AM »

a snip..
One had 3 swarm cells with large larvae on the frame bottom and several supersede cells mid foundation.

tecumseh..
well which is it?  by definition it can not be both... evidently you have read a bit too much into the idea that location of cell indications reason???  by you own description I would GUESS that they are superseding the old queen.
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
duryeafarms
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 04:29:29 PM »

This all sounds strangely familiar.....

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=41197.0
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Elbill
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 09:44:56 PM »

Thanks Duryeafarms for the link. For Tecumseh- I would figure that a queen cell is a queen cell but its location may sometimes be helpful in describing the situation. I do think for reasons only known to the bees that a new queen is the intention.At this point I am going to see what develops. The bees can swarm when they want but unless they have been run out of the hive by other things I think they will wait for the new queens to emerge. I will post the outcome.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 10:13:20 AM »

>One had 3 swarm cells with large larvae on the frame bottom and several supersede cells mid foundation.

Either you have all swarm cells or you have all supersedure cells.  The motivation of the bees is one or the other.  Location is irrelevant.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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buzzbee
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 05:16:09 PM »

Perhaps by feeding you are crowding the bees and forcing an early swarm. With a nuc and drawn frames, I think you can lay off the feed bucket in NC unless your in a drought or dearth.
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Elbill
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2013, 04:21:47 PM »

The thought about feeding is also a concern and have stopped feeding. Thanks for the comment, Buzzbee
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nietssemaj
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2013, 05:57:27 PM »

Perhaps by feeding you are crowding the bees and forcing an early swarm. With a nuc and drawn frames, I think you can lay off the feed bucket in NC unless your in a drought or dearth.

This spring I am having an issue with the bees not being able to draw the comb fast enough. Plenty of 'space',  plenty of flow plenty of bee's. Heard a swarm take off this morning unexpectedly, 70 ft up in an oak tree. I put a bait hive out about 15ft up the tree, couple of bees checked it out but the swarm moved on. I'm still not sure if it was a swarm from one of my hives but it probably is.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2013, 02:56:54 PM »

If you heard them take off and they landed above your apiary they are probably yours.
Jim
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Elbill
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2013, 05:50:48 PM »

Just an update on the nuc with swarm cells. It did swarm 4 days ago while I was in the garden and was able to get them into a hive body. The hive that cast the swarm has capped queen cells and should be a day or two before the new queen emerges. I have left the swarm alone and will check in a few days to see what their queen status is.
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bailey
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 06:00:55 PM »

There ya go!! 2 for one.
 cheesy
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
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