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Author Topic: MAQS Treatment for Swarms  (Read 6591 times)
Michael Bush
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« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2013, 12:22:52 PM »

>Question: what are the negative aspects or consequences to using each of these products mentioned - Apiguard, Apivar, Mite-Away, and so forth?


Apigaurd = thymol = essential oil.  Very temperature dependent.  Broad spectrum microbial that kills the necessary microbes in the colony.  Runs the bees out the door on a hot day.

Apivar=Amitraz= an insecticide, relabeled as an acaracide.  It's been in heavy use (illegally) by the commercial beekeepers since the Varroa arrived.  It builds up in the wax.  Causes sterility in queens and drones.  Shortens the life of bees.  The Varroa have had two decades to build up resistance to it.

Mite-Away=either MAQS (formic acid strips) or the formic acid pads.  Broad spectrum anti-microbial.  Kills queens.  Kills brood.  Very temperature dependent.

The bee colony is a complex ecology consisting, in a natural system, of over 8,000 microorganisms

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/aug98/bees0898.htm?pf=1

120 mites

http://www.landesmuseum.at/biophp/arti_det.php?litnr=10335&artinr=13954

and numerous insects.

Many of these microorganisms fill some niche that keeps out pathogens.  Many are necessary for the proper fermentation of bee bread.  Many are necessary to protect the gut of the bee.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033188

All of the treatments will affect one or more of the above.  Amitraz will kill the beneficial and benign mites and insects, e.g. psudoscorpians etc.  So will Fluvalinate (Apistan) and Cumophos (Checkmite).  The organic acids and essential oils will wipe out the entire spectrum of microorganisms and probably many of the mites and insects as well.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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melliferal
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« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2013, 01:08:59 PM »

So basically, one would not want to be using these treatments on a continual basis, but rather mostly in emergent or dire circumstances.
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Finski
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« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2013, 01:53:19 PM »

So basically, one would not want to be using these treatments on a continual basis, but rather mostly in emergent or dire circumstances.
it is controvesy. They are for continual usage.

European Union Varroa Group started to sieve the best  mite killing methods 1998.
2003 they had tested the  best methods and work was ready about 2006.

Best modern  methods are thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid. These are widely used now in Europe 10-15 years.   Nothing new methods have not been invented since then.

Canada accepted this system one year ago even if it has been known 10 years.
i have teached these things in Beemaster about 7 years, without much results.

There are about 140 chemical treatment against varroa and beeks do not much mind what they push into hives. They just don't know what they are doing. "I heard" is the best reason to use it.
"it is tested" -  it means nothing.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2013, 02:23:24 PM »

>So basically, one would not want to be using these treatments on a continual basis, but rather mostly in emergent or dire circumstances.

I never use any of them.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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2Sox
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« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2013, 02:34:29 PM »

>So basically, one would not want to be using these treatments on a continual basis, but rather mostly in emergent or dire circumstances.

I never use any of them.


What have been your average percentage losses over the last few years?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2013, 03:11:39 PM »

From winter?  It varies a lot from year to year.  From Varroa?  None.  It was a bad winter this last winter, but I can't find but a hundred or less dead Varroa on the bottom boards of the deadouts.

They are inspected every spring for queen rearing and selling queens and have no Varroa issues:
http://bushfarms.com/beescerts.htm

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Finski
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« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »

.
Michaels has his own systems. They not very practical to those who have mite problems, as most have.

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melliferal
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« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2013, 05:17:06 PM »

So basically, one would not want to be using these treatments on a continual basis, but rather mostly in emergent or dire circumstances.
it is controvesy. They are for continual usage.

European Union Varroa Group started to sieve the best  mite killing methods 1998.
2003 they had tested the  best methods and work was ready about 2006.

Best modern  methods are thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid. These are widely used now in Europe 10-15 years.   Nothing new methods have not been invented since then.

Canada accepted this system one year ago even if it has been known 10 years.
i have teached these things in Beemaster about 7 years, without much results.

There are about 140 chemical treatment against varroa and beeks do not much mind what they push into hives. They just don't know what they are doing. "I heard" is the best reason to use it.
"it is tested" -  it means nothing.

.

.

It is illegal to use an unapproved treatment in the US.

I may have read incorrectly, but I seem to remember seeing that some of the treatments we're discussing are thymol or oxalic-based, yes?  Apiguard and MiteAway?
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« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2013, 05:52:19 PM »

From winter?  It varies a lot from year to year.  From Varroa?  None.  It was a bad winter this last winter, but I can't find but a hundred or less dead Varroa on the bottom boards of the deadouts.

They are inspected every spring for queen rearing and selling queens and have no Varroa issues:
http://bushfarms.com/beescerts.htm


Yes, from winter.  

And the rest is astonishing.  
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 08:57:57 PM by 2Sox » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM »

[
.

It is illegal to use an unapproved treatment in the US.
[/quote]

I know that argument. It is pure rubbish.. 

This forum is full of all kind of mite killing procedures, and no one is in jail.
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alfred
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« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2013, 10:41:05 PM »

I never use oxalic acid to treat mites.. I use wood bleach to treat my woodenware, which for convenience I do with the colony still in the hive. Some mites die as a tragic side effect......

Alfred
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melliferal
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« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2013, 10:46:18 PM »



I know that argument. It is pure rubbish.. 

This forum is full of all kind of mite killing procedures, and no one is in jail.

It's not illegal to talk about unapproved treatments; just to actually use them. 

I'm sure those treatments you mentioned, if effective, will be legal in the US eventually.  Right now, they're simply not available here, so in the meantime we'll use others.  Most people who have used the treatments we've discussed here came away with living colonies, so they can serve at least for now.
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Finski
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2013, 12:05:57 AM »



I know that argument. It is pure rubbish.. 

This forum is full of all kind of mite killing procedures, and no one is in jail.

It's not illegal to talk about unapproved treatments; just to actually use them. 

I'm sure those treatments you mentioned, if effective, will be legal in the US eventually.  Right now, they're simply not available here, so in the meantime we'll use others.  Most people who have used the treatments we've discussed here came away with living colonies, so they can serve at least for now.


heh heh heh

i was in NZ beekeeping forum. They discussed there how oxalic acid trickling is that and that.
I went there to tell how the stuff works . They got nervous because I spoke against their opinions. They just did not know how to use it. I had used it 8 years.

Then I told that they in use trickling in swarms and artificial swarms.

Then they  banned  me because artificial swarms are illegal in NZ  second thing, I recommended illegal method to be used.

One wrote that artificial swarms are illegal as a treatment of AFB, but not prevent swarming.
Then we noticed that oxalic acid is in a list of allowed stuff.

 Finally I noticed that it is vain to teach perfect idiots and they continues their stupid information session..
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Finski
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« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2013, 12:27:42 AM »

.
I just read that only accepted mite killer in USA is Apistan stips,  and we know that there are mites have high resistancy against it.

In new winter loss report it was said that 66% out of untreated hives died in winter.

Save the bees, save the bees. 8 years have been cried for that.

I am really tired to read how illegal it is save bees from varroa. Year after year.
But you may really write all kind of rubbish about best methods and then you try all kind of humbug things there.

 In Britain they play their illegal play too.

In European Union countries there are too that "accepted vet stuff policy". But who cares when one must save his hives and his workplace.





 
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« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2013, 01:02:34 AM »

.
I just read that only accepted mite killer in USA is Apistan stips,  and we know that there are mites have high resistancy against it.


Where did you read that?  I'm sure what you read must have been mistaken or outdated.  As an American, from American beekeeping supply companies targeted at American beekeepers, right now I can buy Apistan and Checkmite, as well as Hopguard, Apiguard (thymol), MiteAway (formic acid), ApiVar (amitraz), as well as any number of IPM components.  These are blatantly advertised as explicitly for Varroa mite control, which would not be permitted if these treatments were not legal.
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capt44
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« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2013, 01:19:13 AM »

I usually wait until August.
I usually do the sugar roll test and uncapped drone brood.
Before I treat with Formic acid I watch the weather and when I'm going to have 6 days or so temperatures below 90 degrees F. I treat.
I treat for 5 days only then remove the patties.
You will have a fairly high mortality rate on the old bees but you'll have young bees, brood, and eggs coming on.
This spring the inspector checked my hives on each of my bee yards.
I had strong colonies with drone crawling around March 4.
I had no signs of varroa mites.
I had signs of hive beetles.
My hives are very strong now.
Formic Acid is very strong, wear a respirator, and wear chemical type gloves.
All I can say is my colonies are in very good shape.
February 15th I started with sugar syrup 1-1 with Pro Health supplement and pollen/protein patties.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
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« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2013, 01:39:11 AM »

Where did you read that?  I'm sure what you read must have been mistaken or outdated.  As an American, from American beekeeping supply companies targeted at American beekeepers, right now I can buy Apistan and Checkmite, as well as Hopguard, Apiguard (thymol), MiteAway (formic acid), ApiVar (amitraz), as well as any number of IPM components.  These are blatantly advertised as explicitly for Varroa mite control, which would not be permitted if these treatments were not legal.

it is good that you need not to waste your energy with illegal issues. It is not my problem.

I read 2010 paper.

The  basic is how good is the information when you use those stuffs.

 .
Guys are fond on product names when something new comes to market.
However it may have 20 years experience about basic stuff,  like about formic acid.

.
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« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2013, 07:06:03 AM »

MAny of the products are approved on a state by stae basis.Not all products need federal approval. There is no money to be made for someone to have oxalic acid approved which is why you do not see supply houses pushing for approval.
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melliferal
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« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2013, 10:55:05 AM »

Aww come on; you just don't have enough vision.  There shouldn't have been any money in formic acid, since anyone can just get some formic acid from a non-beekeeping supplier and use it, right?  But, presto - Mite Away formic acid treatment.  There shouldn't be any money in sugar; it's a very common grocery store item.  But, beekeeping suppliers offer it!

When oxalic acid is approved, something similar to Mite Away will come about.  It might just be evap pads, specially designed to fit in Langstroth hives.  Or it might be the acid in combination with some other treatment - introducing MelliFree strips, the all-in-one total mite solution, featuring oxalic acid and menthol for control of Varroa and tracheal mites in one convenient treatment!  A little imagination goes a long way.
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Finski
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« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2013, 11:41:39 AM »

.

Mellifera, now  you invent your own ideas. The world has tens of universities which develope varroa treatment and test treatments.

i know that oxalic acid has been used in USA  10 - 15 years widely. And it is adviced too widely how to do it.

Methods are water solution spraying, syrup trickling and fumication.


Look at US university research programs what they are doing. Strange but they are doing same what has done in Europe 10 y ago.

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