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Author Topic: Trapout! Might this work???  (Read 651 times)
Moots
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« on: April 27, 2013, 06:57:58 PM »

Ok,
Discovered today that my brother has bees entering between his chimney and siding.  Not sure yet "exactly" where they are (i.e. in wall, between floor joist, etc)  Anyway, not sure he or I are wild about starting the process of opening things up.

So, I was thinking maybe a trapout....with a twist.  I'm already pretty much over where I want to be for number of hives and Nucs.  So, instead of starting a trapout with an empty Nuc and adding brood in a few days.  I was considering taking an existing Nuc that I have with a laying queen but only about 3 frames of bees and using it.

I'm thinking that the foragers returning to the hive in the house would find there way into the Nuc (Sort of like if they had drifted over) and help boost the numbers of the weak Nuc, it would be a win/win.

Or....
Is this a bad idea that most likely won't work and will end up getting my small Nuc's queen killed?

Thoughts???  huh
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 07:06:27 PM »

I've used mated queens in the trap hive several times with success. I'd be wary though, trap outs never get the chance to rob out the honey here due to hive beetles. As soon as the colony is weakened enough they take over and make a smelly mess with dripping honey running all over. In a tree cavity it's no problem but I won't even try them with houses!

Scott
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 07:32:28 PM »

yup, I only trapout structures that have had recent move-ins, otherwise those maggots will appear..
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Moots
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2013, 10:02:32 PM »

Ok,
Got my hands on a good heat detector, pretty confident the hive is In the chimney. The chimney is basically a hollow brick box built to house the exhaust pipe for a wood burning stove. So, I think a trap out is my only real option and if the hive turns into a mess, there should be no real negative impact...it's not like its in an interior wall.
Just trying to think of a creative way to seal the entrance and attach a cone that will "a" work, and "b",  not make a huge mess.

Suggestions welcome.  Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 10:27:38 PM »

can they get out at the top or bottom?  if you restrict that entrance and they can find an easy way to get out/in somewhere else you could have interesting things going on in that house! 
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 10:37:34 PM »

Wax (hydrocarbons) and hot pipes are not a concern?

I’ll admit I have no idea what to do, I’m just glad it isn’t my problem.

Good luck to you Moots, this one sounds messy. Sad
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Moots
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 03:21:51 PM »

Alright....
A little more information...I'm afraid there's no good answers for this one, so I guess I'm looking for the lessor of the evils.

It's an internal brick wall that vents a wood burning stove, with the houses regular exterior wall behind it, Studs, plywood, etc.  The exterior has basically a "U" shaped brick wall built against the house, which is basically a faux chimney.  The bees are entering between the Vinyl siding and the bricks of the chimney where it tappers from wider to narrower.  I'm now fairly confident that they are located in the exterior wall lodged between the internal brick wall and encased by the faux chimney from the outside.  Sad

Here's the internal brick wall and the heat signature I'm getting from it.



The three orange lights are reflection from the lights in the room behind me, Heat is shown as white in the image.



This is where they are entering, from best I can tell, it's somewhere along the slanted part of the bricks!



Options and problems....

1)  Trap out.....Not sure how to get a decent seal for my mesh funnel on their entry point.

Other options which I would like to avoid include sacrificing the bees.  However, that too is not without problems.

Can't really get anything to them to kill them.  Sealing them in is not a good option because some of the bees are finding their way inside the house.  As Kathy points out, if I take away their main exit, it could get real interesting, real quick!  Not to mention, the mess that will be left in the wall.  Which will still be an issue even if I do a trap out b/c of what Scott has mentioned about SHB's.

So, If anyone has any creative ideas short of tearing down internal or external bricks....I'd love to hear them. laugh

Thanks!
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 03:41:18 PM »

Moots,

I can only offer moral support. I am so sorry for the mess this is going to cause. I wish you the best.

All I can say is holy :poop:

Best of luck.

David
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 03:48:01 PM »

Moots I would speak with someone in your local bee club and see if anybody has a bore scope you can use... You could drill a small hole in the bricks and be 100% confident where they are located and get a better idea on how much stores they have... Could give you a better sense of direction on what to do.... If there isn't much stores--- maybe not a huge mess-- Smiley if all else fails just plug the hole with mortar and no harm done...
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Marshall
Moots
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2013, 06:51:21 PM »

GB,
Appreciate the moral support, I'll take anything I can get.... laugh!

B,
Good idea.  Easton's actually been lobbying that idea heavily, of course, he's wanting me to go buy one...LOL!  I hadn't really thought about asking around and trying to borrow one.  I think I'll give that a try...at least it's a "next move".  Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2013, 09:07:09 PM »

Sounds like you have too many bees over there... grin just remember I'm just a call away...lol always willing to help a fellow beek out...
Is the bees in his house a swarm from one of your hives moots? Was thinking my neighbors would start pointing fingers my way if they had some in their chimney. Sad lol I hope I don't have to deal with the "you need to come get YOUR bees out of my house thing." Lol
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 08:25:15 AM »

The hive I took out last week smelled of the same and you probably will not heat sense thru bricks on bees. If they had not built up enough you will not get a reading on the ceiling if in the floor of a two story. Best to get bore scope or drill hole for look in behind siding if that's the case and do a removal. As Hardwood said not good to leave the stuff in there. Tried two trapouts and bees are agressive in trying to get back in and will look for alternative entrances if possible and eat there way back in.
Blanc
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Moots
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 09:17:24 AM »

OK...
I've managed to find someone with an inspection camera I can borrow.  I should have it this weekend and subject to weather, plan on taking a look to see if I can get a better idea of exactly what I'm dealing with.

However, I'd like to plan for the worse and hope for the best until I know more.  grin

Assuming worse case scenario, lets say I confirm I have a hive of significant size located in the exterior wall sandwiched between an interior brick wall and an exterior free standing Chimney.  THEN WHAT? Keep in mind, this is my brothers house, so a "No thanks, I'd prefer not to mess with this" isn't an option.  laugh

I guess my main question is I understand leaving the comb in the wall can create a "mess"...how big of a "mess" and how certain is it?

Big enough and certain enough to start removing an interior brick wall to get to it?  Or, do I handle the bees as best as possible...(i.e. trap out, poison, seal in, etc. etc.) leave the comb in the wall, and wait and see what happens.

Needless to say, I'd like to make every "reasonable" effort to save the bees.  But removing the problem for my brother without major structural damage is probably going to be his priority.

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hardwood
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2013, 10:03:01 AM »

Moots, as far as far as the "leaving a mess" it's not a certainty at all. It may get slimed by beetles, it may not. It may run into the house or it may run to the outside. It may not matter at all. Then reason for the caution is that there is a possibility that it may turn out bad and that's enough to warrant removal. I guess it's a judgement call and if you find that there is a large amount of comb on your inspection take it out, if not so much leave it.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Moots
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »

First off...Thanks to everyone for the input and suggestions...

Gave my brother what i felt like were all his options...his house, his choice!  Smiley

He decided to be minimally evasive and understands the risk of it possibly becoming messy because of us not removing the comb.  I can't say I really disagree, I think I too would hold off on tearing into a brick wall until it became absolutely necessary.

Anyway, I wanted to make an attempt to at least save as many of the bees as possible...So, I decided to try a trapout using a 6 frame Nuc I have from a previously captured small swarm.  The Nuc probably only has two and a half good frames of bees, so they could use some help. Hoping to make it a win/win situation.

Got my cone and Nuc in place last night after dark, checked on them throughout the day today.  Noticed first thing this morning that it appeared that they were still getting in and out of the top where I had sealed the entrance.  Smoked them, jammed some rags in the cracks and sprayed a little bee quick to discourage their loitering in the area....Which seemed to do the trick.

From best I can tell, it seems to be working as designed....
Here's a brief Video of the setup.  It won't earn any style points, but seems to be working.  grin

A few more questions?

How soon do I need to worry about checking the Nuc to monitor space?

How long do I need to leave this in place before I hit a point of diminishing returns and just seal it up and hope for the best.
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2013, 08:20:11 PM »

That all depends on the size of the colony! You'll get the vast majority of the existing foragers on day 1-2. After that are younger and younger recruits until the colony collapses and the queen leaves. Check the nuc after 2 days and make that judgement.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Moots
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2013, 08:25:12 PM »

That all depends on the size of the colony! You'll get the vast majority of the existing foragers on day 1-2. After that are younger and younger recruits until the colony collapses and the queen leaves. Check the nuc after 2 days and make that judgement.

Scott

Will do, thanks so much for the input Scott, much appreciated!  I'm in unchartered waters here...  Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2013, 08:52:40 PM »

""How long do I need to leave this in place before I hit a point of diminishing returns and just seal it up and hope for the best.""

7 to 8 weeks unless the SHB slime it.
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