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Author Topic: loony tree hugging leftist  (Read 8044 times)
kathyp
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« on: April 23, 2013, 12:35:24 AM »

it think this as the term that cause someone to accuse me of name calling.   Wink  i was just trying to be accurate in my description, but i guess i hurt some LTHL feelings.

we were talking about signing a petition to ban certain pesticides.  the petition had no facts about the pesticides, no references to scientific studies, etc.  i made the observation that this was much like the DDT ban, based on no facts.   also like the global cooling/warming/climate change pseudoscience clap trap.

in my state 1000's have been put out of work in the logging, mill, and timber support industries.  today they announced another mill closing.  there are not many left.  instead of harvesting an abundant crop in the US, we now import our timber from Canada.
why?  be cause some LTHLs lied about an owl and with no proof or studies, the timber industry in this state was killed.

another thing we have in abundance is water.  many rivers had dams.  even many of the smaller rivers.  may of the dams were operated privately and the power sold to the state.  this gave us a cheep and clean source of power and was good for the people and industry.  enter the LTHL.  exit the dams for the sake of the fish.  are the fish in trouble?  there is no proof of this.  are the fish not cared for with fish ladders, breeding grounds, laws that require the wild fish be thrown back?  not enough, they say.  

so we must live in the dark, unemployed, eating grass, AND not going to the woods because (surprise) they have turned a vast portion of it into unusable wilderness area.

i hope i live to see the day that the wildlife leaks into their yard and steals their yappy excuse for a dog.....oops, back to the reprogramming camp.  nature is good.  nature is kind.  man is bad.  man kills nature. anything that is bad, is the fault of man........  
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 10:36:49 AM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 12:57:51 AM »

it think this as the term that cause someone to accuse me of name calling.   Wink  
You're going too easy on them KathyP!  If the worst I get called around here is a tree hugger, I’m having a great day. Wink

Like oil, trees don’t last forever.  Once the old growth is gone, it’s gone.  Michigan used to be covered in white pine forests.  Before we built fine automobiles, our main industry was lumber.  Lots of that lumber went to build Chicago, a time or two.  What do businessmen do when there are no regulators?  Come to Michigan some time and try to find an old growth White Pine.  Hardly a virgin tree left.  What a nice legacy those good ole boys left for us.  It is truly sad that some people would want to level Oregon.  What a sad legacy for the Grandkids.  Cry      

Quote
so we must live in the dark, unemployed, eating grass, AND not going to the woods because (surprise) they have turned a vast portion of it into unusable wilderness area.
Ever hear of re-training and re-educating?  Adult education.

FYI, I’m doing my part to save the planet and the trees this week.  I’m planting 1000 trees before dormancy breaks here. applause applause applause
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bud1
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 08:42:19 AM »

blue some of youall need to get outa those rabit warrens and really see the light    some places the stars are still visable and thank the good lord i live there. those tree cutters plant millions or trees and have their own personel fire crews to put out the fires that tree hugers start while they sit in theit camps descussing the terrible logers and wishing they were in their nice warm homes and not having to slap mosquitoes
wonder where the wood comes from that was used building yo house.  wake up people. the woodland has been some of thols peoples lively hood for generations and they are going to do all they can to protect it
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 09:43:39 AM »

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Once the old growth is gone, it’s gone. 

and?  what is the value of old trees other than to use them?  the argument here has been "they have been here for centuries.  look at the history they have seen".  so what?  are they going to teach it to our children?  are they going to write a book?  no.  they will just stand there until they are hit by lightening or the wind knocks them down.

as a matter of ecology, newer trees do a better job of scrubbing the air.  really, if we were worried about the environment, we'd cut all the old growth and re-plant.

Quote
wake up people. the woodland has been some of thols peoples lively hood for generations and they are going to do all they can to protect it

like farming.  as they learn more, they protect more.  logging is a science now.

once i was flying over oregon and the lady next to me began making that clucking sound.  i knew what was coming.  "look at all those bare spots where they clear cut".  "what a shame that is".
being me, i proceeded to describe the beauty of an old clear cut, the wildlife they support, and suggested she get (get large backside) out to the wood to look for herself.
funny how those who want to tell the rest of us how to live, never actually get out to the woods and see what they are like.  or, if they do, they end up falling into a hole or getting eaten, and expecting us to go out there and save them. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 10:20:39 AM »

Blue,
God knows Chicago has its share of problems, but, what's your point?  Are you implying that the country would be better off had Chicago not been built so that Michigan could have a whole bunch of old forest sitting idle.

Do you not have an appreciation for the number of people that work provided a lively hood to and the number of families  it provided with a place to live (i.e. shelter).

And what's with this, when it's gone, it's gone?  No it's not!  It's a renewable resource. Plant a bunch of trees, wait a couple hundred years, and like magic, old growth forest.  I realize to you and me a couple hundred years seems like a long time, but in the life cycle of the earth it's basically nothing.  Smiley
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Joe D
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 10:31:37 AM »

I used to have some old growth trees.  Lightening got the pines, some were 45 to 50 ft to the first limb.  A hurricane got the oaks, they just laid there and rotted.  After a tree gets so big, saw mills can't use them anymore because of the equipment won't handle them.  There was something back a few years ago down toward our coast on a river about a little fish and inch or so long that was supposed to be endangered, so things had to be changed.  Kathy if you need some DDT, I may still have some.  


Joe
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sterling
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 12:24:10 PM »

Several years ago the govt was going to build a dam on the Duck River here in middle TN. They bought some of the land started the project spent a bunch of money and then had to stop  because of the indangered snelldarter a little minnow that the tree huggers said only lived in the Duck River and the dam would kill all them. A few years after the project was stopped they surprisingly found some snelldarters in other waterways.
The left has been lying to us for years and years.
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kingbee
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 03:25:43 PM »

By equating timber harvest to the petroleum industry Blue B proves that his depth of understanding concerning the environment and the natural world is only a hair wide and a micron deep. 

Blue B, wood can be grown and regrown on the same land.  You should realize this now that wide swaths of Detroit, Michigan are currently being converted from industrial production and human housing back into forrest and crop land. 

Once a petroleum resource is exhausted it is gone for millions of years or at least until enough whale dandruff or dinosaur flatulence has collected on the ocean floor and been converted by heat and pressure into new petroleum, say sometime after the year 10,002,013ce. 

Depending on the climate, latitude, and altitude wood can be harvested, regrown, and then re-harvested in as little as 30 or 35 years.  That makes wood somewhat like the honey that we (myself anyway) extract from our bee hives. 

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kingbee
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 07:33:38 PM »

What the Tree Huggers have failed to acknowledge is that the spotted owls' problems have nothing to do with logging old growth forests and everything to do with another owl species that is in the process of migrating into the spotted owl's territory. 

When the media gets it wrong they never acknowledge their mistake but instead the MSM go into denial mode and attempt to cover up their previous mistakes.  This is a lot like Richard Nixon and his plumbers, remember that cover up Blue B? 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1217_021226_tvinterbreeding.html

To SAVE the barred owl and the spotted owl from themselves or from interbreeding themselves into a Spotted-Barred owl known as a "spared" owl, the US Forrest Service is quietly killing spared, barred and spotted owls where their territory overlaps. 

The two species are so closely related that the off springs of a barred and spotted owl are perfectly fertile thank you.  At least as fertile as a cross between an Italian and a Buckfest bee is fertile.

Of course the smelly Tree 'Huggies' blame logging but they never look at the effect the coast to coast and border to border Interstate Highway System plays in creating migratory routes into areas previously un-colonized  by species like the barred owl.  They are owls for Christ's sake and barred owls need trees to roost and nest in as well as the spotted owl does, and the Pacific North West is full of trees.  Imagine that Dick Tracey!
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 07:37:33 PM »

aren't they interfering with potential evolution of the owls by not allowing them to cross breed? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 01:24:48 PM »

aren't they interfering with potential evolution of the owls by not allowing them to cross breed? 

I don't know about that kathyp, but they are sure sending conflicting messages about the Left's sacred cow, Multiculturalism.
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 01:27:50 PM »

 grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 03:34:53 PM »

it think this as the term that cause someone to accuse me of name calling.   Wink  i was just trying to be accurate in my description, but i guess i hurt some LTHL feelings.

we were talking about signing a petition to ban certain pesticides.  the petition had no facts about the pesticides, no references to scientific studies, etc.  i made the observation that this was much like the DDT ban, based on no facts.   also like the global cooling/warming/climate change pseudoscience clap trap.

in my state 1000's have been put out of work in the logging, mill, and timber support industries.  today they announced another mill closing.  there are not many left.  instead of harvesting an abundant crop in the US, we now import our timber from Canada.
why?  be cause some LTHLs lied about an owl and with no proof or studies, the timber industry in this state was killed.

another thing we have in abundance is water.  many rivers had dams.  even many of the smaller rivers.  may of the dams were operated privately and the power sold to the state.  this gave us a cheep and clean source of power and was good for the people and industry.  enter the LTHL.  exit the dams for the sake of the fish.  are the fish in trouble?  there is no proof of this.  are the fish not cared for with fish ladders, breeding grounds, laws that require the wild fish be thrown back?  not enough, they say.  

so we must live in the dark, unemployed, eating grass, AND not going to the woods because (surprise) they have turned a vast portion of it into unusable wilderness area.

i hope i live to see the day that the wildlife leaks into their yard and steals their yappy excuse for a dog.....oops, back to the reprogramming camp.  nature is good.  nature is kind.  man is bad.  man kills nature. anything that is bad, is the fault of man........  
That's not what I heard about your water in Oregon. I heard the farmers were fighting for it, as were the wildlife biologists, and that there wasn't enough for both. But that was quite a while back while my sister was living there.

I agree that govt agencies can be crazy about their guidelines for protection. After the flooding of 2008, my husband wasn't allowed to plant certain fields as cattails had sprung up and they were not "wetlands," despite being farmed nonstop for many decades.

But I also see some pretty good programs out there, like the program our woodlands are signed up for--planned timbering.

You say:
and?  what is the value of old trees other than to use them?  the argument here has been "they have been here for centuries.  look at the history they have seen".  so what?  are they going to teach it to our children?  are they going to write a book?  no.  they will just stand there until they are hit by lightening or the wind knocks them down.

Are you kidding? Just because YOU don't live in that tree doesn't mean it doesn't provide habitat and food for many other species. It's very logical to realize that humans are interconnected to many other species on the planet, probably most of which relationships we don't understand at all.
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The pedigree of honey
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A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kingbee
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 04:45:46 PM »

Here we are back to calling people "name callers" who have never called you the first bad name.  So let's drop this line and

you can tell us more about this logging program that your land is enrolled in.  It may prove beneficial to all of us.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 04:49:09 PM »

Here we are back to calling people "name callers" who have never called you the first bad name.  
I have no idea what you're talking about. The "name calling" comment is in Kathy's quote from way back.

It's called managed forestry. I'll let you do the research.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 04:58:59 PM »

Quote
That's not what I heard about your water in Oregon. I heard the farmers were fighting for it, as were the wildlife biologists, and that there wasn't enough for both. But that was quite a while back while my sister was living there.

that was in southern oregon and it was about some little fish.  the state blocked the water to the farms and ranches for the sake of the fish.  the above reference was about much the same, but i was talking about CA.  that place that provides so much of the produce for this country and others?  there was  story of the state trucking in food to the farm workers and when the truck was opened it had the same produce that these farmers should have been growing, stamped Grown In Mexico.
Quote

Are you kidding? Just because YOU don't live in that tree doesn't mean it doesn't provide habitat and food for many other species. It's very logical to realize that humans are interconnected to many other species on the planet, probably most of which relationships we don't understand at all.

then no tree should ever be cut.  no ground turned.  no grass mowed.  do you know how many voles i kill every time i whack down my fields....my god.  the blood on my hands...er, blades.

i don't live in the tree.  you and i do live in the homes built with those trees.  guess we could live in a cave, but we'd probably displace some bat....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 05:52:37 PM »

Then by your "logic," every blade of grass should be cut, all earth turned, all trees cut. Neither extreme makes much sense.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 06:07:17 PM »

not sure how you came to that conclusion.  i think trees should be treated like any other crop. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2013, 10:59:49 AM »

not sure how you came to that conclusion.  i think trees should be treated like any other crop. 

You: "then no tree should ever be cut.  no ground turned.  no grass mowed."
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
BlueBee
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2013, 11:34:22 AM »

I don’t suppose there should be any attempt to “conserve” water in the West for future generations either?  Why should y’all have your toilets limited to 2 gallons a flush?  That really sounds like an infringement on your "rights" doesn't it?  Why not just let the West flush as much water as they want?  

I’m sure Michigan would be happy to sell you fresh water for say, $1000 a barrel when yours is all gone. grin
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