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Author Topic: 3 Frame Mating Nuc Contents  (Read 1632 times)
Caleb012
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« on: April 22, 2013, 08:16:29 PM »

What should the contents consist of for a 3 frame mating nuc? My plan is to place queen cells in for hatching....mating. 1 frame honey and pollen...2 frames capped brood? These would be standard, deep frames. Thanks!
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 11:19:39 PM »

You won't have foragers but you should have plenty of nurse bees. The foragers will fly back to the old hive but the nurse bees will stay to attend the young. Since you won't have much incoming resources, it may be better to have 2 frames of honey and pollen along with the frame of brood. Of coarse it may not make any difference. 2 frame mating nucs only has one frame of honey and pollen and one frame of brood.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 08:12:54 AM »

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.
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Michael Bush
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 10:12:17 AM »

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.
If he gives a frame of capped brood, by the time the queen emerges and mates, shouldn't the brood be hatched out leaving an empty frame?
 
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 11:22:56 AM »


2 frames of capped too much because they give 5-6 frames of bees.
What young bees do in mating nucs, they have nothing work to do.

If the nuc has too much bees, they will fill the nuc very fast with honey, and then they swarm with their queen.
Canola is bad in this meaning.

I use 3 frames mating nucs.

First I give 2 frames of bees + 1 foundation.
It needs a piece of brood,

Then I move nucs to another yard.

It takes 10 days that the queen starts to lay. That is why they do not need much bees.
Then I add a frame of emerging bees. After that the nuc will have 3 frames of brood.


When I have several those nucs, and I take a queen away, I may join two nucs 3+3 frames, and that nuc will be quite stong to continue build up.


If I have 15 mating nucs at same time, I need quite much bees into nucs. That is away from my honey yield. Cost of own queens rise really high if I am not carefull.  I may loose 100 kg honey with mating nucs.

.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2013, 10:05:41 AM »

>If he gives a frame of capped brood, by the time the queen emerges and mates, shouldn't the brood be hatched out leaving an empty frame?

No.  You give a mating nuc a cell that is about to emege.  She should emerge two days later.  Two weeks later she will be laying and the open brood will be capped, not emerged.
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Michael Bush
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »

>If he gives a frame of capped brood, by the time the queen emerges and mates, shouldn't the brood be hatched out leaving an empty frame?

No.  You give a mating nuc a cell that is about to emege.  She should emerge two days later.  Two weeks later she will be laying and the open brood will be capped, not emerged.
I think I understand why you would use open brood over capped.
 My thoughts were going towards, if you install two frames of resources and one frame of capped brood, by the time the queen emerges, mates and is ready to start laying eggs, That capped brood will be emerging. Even if it's freshly capped brood when you put it in, it's only 13 days for them to emerge, which will be 2 to a 3 days before the queen is ready to lay. She now  has an empty frame that the new workers just came out of and clleaned, approximately (3,000?)  new workers along with two frames of resources. Any bees you added at the start, and stayed, should now be foragers.
 The method you described, I imagine, would keep the nurse bees that you added along with the open brood from leaving, therefore increasing the resources as they become foragers...
 Maybe I'm over thinking this. Undecided
  I'm just one of those people that like to know why someone does something a certain way instead of blindly following them.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2013, 04:37:05 PM »

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.

I agree 100% with Michael Bush.

Steel Tiger.......
How many nuc have you made over the years Huh
 
Oh by a way I use 5 frame nuc which is standard to the bee industry.   



               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Jim 134
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 05:14:57 PM »

Caleb012 ......
 Are you using Mini Mating Nuc Huh






               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Steel Tiger
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 05:46:20 PM »

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.

I would give them a frame of open brood, a frame of honey, an empty drawn comb, and shake the bees in from another frame of open brood.

I agree 100% with Michael Bush.

Steel Tiger.......
How many nuc have you made over the years Huh
 
Oh by a way I use 5 frame nuc which is standard to the bee industry.   

I thought this forum was mainly for education. Instead of explaining "why", you just agree and then want to throw the burden of proof on me. If you want to walk down a path that others walked already, that's fine, do what you want. I just don't think it's right for you to criticize people who dare walk off that "standard to the bee industry" path to explore different possible ways of doing things.
 If everyone walked that same path, then everyone would have langstroth hives with two deeps for brood and supers or shallows for honey. After all, that's "industry standards" in the US.

 When I post a comment, I generally try to include as much information as I can, so that if someone disagrees, they can point out my flaws. I can then rethink my strategy and possible come up with a much better idea on what will work. When someone says "that won't work... oh, by the way, how many nucs have you built". That's not an answer.

 I commented to Michael Bush because he disagreed with me. It's fine if he disagrees, I just wanted him to clarify on what he saw as flaws. I read his bio, I know how long he's been raising bees and I know he choose to walk a different path and think outside the box, even when he was simply told "that won't work". Apparently it did work and now he travels around the country giving lectures on how and why, not "just because I say so"

 I hope you read this and at least chew on the fact that some people can't accept a simple "yes" or "no" for an answer, we want to know why it"s "yes" or why it's "no"... without being challenged, because, no offense, you come off sounding a bit juvenile when you respond to a comment with "How long have you been..." or "How many have you..."

 My mini rant is done, guess I'll go finish killing wasp I saw flying around today.

 
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Caleb012
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 05:59:54 PM »

I am using 3 frame deep nucs....
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buzzbee
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 06:44:35 PM »

Okay lets back it down a bit folks.
 Michael is a published and experienced beekeeer.  Jim134 has been keeping bees for over 50 years.
 Steel Tiger, I think Jim is trying to convey that it appears you have yet to have bees and it's hard to give experienced advice without having had experience. I could be wrong, and please don't let this deter you from asking questions or posting. But if you are yet a novice, at least let people know you are just theorizing or are speaking from an experience you had or read somewhere.
And Jim, don't jump on his every post.
OK everyone? Lets  keep our visits here pleasant if we can. Smiley
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Jim 134
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 09:55:25 PM »

I am using 3 frame deep nucs....




 OK if I live in NC I probably would use 5 frame Medium nucs because of SHB. I know I would have to learn a lot about SHB their are only have a few SHB in this part of Massachusetts where I live. I would go to a Local Beekeeping Associations and have to ask lots of questions from people who have kept bees and the area for at leasts 5 to 7 years remember beekeeping is local what may work in one place will not work another place.

ALAMANCE CO BKPRS ASSOC
http://alamancebeekeepers.com/default.aspx

 BEEKEEPERS OF THE ALBEMARLE ASSOC
 Jay Nicolay
 Phone: 757-482-2018
 Email: JNICOLAY@COX.NET
www.geocities.com/beekeepersofalbemarle

 BEEKEEPERS OF WILKES COUNTY
 Laurie Robertson
 Phone: 336-973-7951
 Email: cudjoerob@wilkes.net

 BUNCOMBE COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Amanda Stone
 828-255-5522
 Email: amanda_stone@ncsu.edu
www.wncbees.org

 CABARRUS COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Fay Griffin
 Phone: 704-782-8162
 Email: faysgriffin@aol.com

 CALDWELL COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 David Barbour
 Phone: 828-728-0968
 Email: thebeeyard@charter.net
http://www.ncneighbors.com/main.wsi?group_id=3318

 CHATHAM COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Jimmy Williams
 919-362-1794
 Email: jimwilliams2@yahoo.com

 DAVIE COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Barron Church: Pres.
 Email: BChurch249@aol.com
http://www.daviebeekeepers.org
 

 GASTON COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Mark Elders
 Phone: 704-691-2709
 Email: honeyhouse1950@yahoo.com
http://www.ncneighbors.com/main.wsi?group_id=3185

 GUILFORD COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Honey Bee Harvest, Inc
 Kurt & Natalie Bower
 5430 Amick Rd
 Julian, NC 28283
 Phone: 336-697-2811
 Email: honeybeeharvest@yahoo.com
www.guilfordbeekeepers.org

 JOHNSTON COUNTY CHAPTER OF NCSBA
 Amie Newsome
 919-989-5380
 Email: amie_newsome@ncsu.edu

 MACON COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Janet Hill
 Phone: 828-369-9819
 Email: janet28734@gmail.com
www.maconbeekeepers.com

 NORTH CAROLINA STATE BKPRS ASSOC
 Charles Heatherly
 919-859-6995
 Email: heath7@bellsouth.net
http://www.ncbeekeepers.org

 ORANGE COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
www.theocba.org

 RANDOLPH COUNTY CHAPTER OF NCSBA
 Jerry M. Isley
 Phone: 336-472-6325
 Email: jbisley@aol.com

 RUTHERFORD COUNTY BKPRS ASSOC
 Jeanne Price
 182 Elizabeth Ave
 Forest City, NC 28043
 Phone: 828-247-1640
 Email: jeanne_price@bellsouth.net



                       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 10:23:57 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Michael Bush
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2013, 11:00:08 AM »

>I think I understand why you would use open brood over capped.
> My thoughts were going towards, if you install two frames of resources and one frame of capped brood, by the time the queen emerges, mates and is ready to start laying eggs, That capped brood will be emerging.

If you used a frame of open brood and a frame of capped brood, probably.  It's not a bad plan.  I just never have enough resources when setting up mating nucs, so I try to keep the resources to a minimum required to get a reliable mating nuc.  If you want a stronger nuc, a frame of emerging brood would add to that.  But they quickly outgrow an three frame nuc anyway...

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Michael Bush
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Caelansbees
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 12:07:34 AM »

That is my worry with the three frames.  Them outgrowing it too quickly.  I have been using this set of plans that gets you 4 five frame nucs out of one sheet of plywood.  They work fantastically.  But I have just got my hands on this little queen castle that separates a deep three ways.  Any advice on setting that up? I have three hives that I "swarmed" last week by steeling the queen and frame she was on. (Pulled resources from other hives too.) all have several frames with beautiful cells.
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Finski
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2013, 10:27:06 AM »

That is my worry with the three frames.  Them outgrowing it too quickly.  I have been using this set of plans that gets you 4 five frame nucs out of one sheet of plywood.  They work fantastically..

the bigger the nuc, the better is the colony.
But the parent colony looses valuable workers and it is not any more able to forage honey as with those stealed brood and bees.

3 frame nuc takes one month before it start to expand.  of course if you put 2 brood frames into 3 frame nuc, those nucs produce 5-6 frame bees.

. One brood frame gives 3 frame of bees.

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Caelansbees
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2013, 10:08:18 PM »

I'm not pulling any of these frames from production hives.  Also 90% of harvestable flow here is done by mid June/ July tops....
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Finski
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 12:40:16 AM »

I'm not pulling any of these frames from production hives.  Also 90% of harvestable flow here is done by mid June/ July tops....

if you have yield flow in late half of June, those foragers are brood in first half of May.

If you take 3 brood frames, it means one box of ready bees in production. One box means 20% of bees of productive hive.

I have only productive bees. No hives are for fun.
.

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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 12:42:14 AM »

I'm not pulling any of these frames from production hives.  Also 90% of harvestable flow here is done by mid June/ July tops....

it is up to you how you calculate your honey business.
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 07:12:05 AM »

I wish it was up to me. We just have the shortest most intense flow here in Maryland. That's why all the big guys move their hives south or west all summer.
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