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Author Topic: First pkg today  (Read 1177 times)
Georgia Boy
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« on: April 20, 2013, 06:11:15 AM »

Hey guys,

Will be putting in my first pkg late today need advice on frames.

I have both Mann Lake PF120's and F style foundationless from Walter Kelly can't decide which one to use.

If I use the 120's I plan to spray them with sugar water to get the bees to take to them.

Would like to use the f-style frames but I have no drawn comb to help them draw them straight.

Either way, I don't have any brood to anchor them to the hive.

Just trying to make the best choice for the bees.

I know no matter what I choice I make the bees may still leave.

Please give your suggestions.

Thanks David
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2013, 06:39:42 AM »


GB,
First off, congrats on getting your bees, I know how long you've been waiting and how forward you've been looking to it....most importantly, enjoy it and don't stress too much about any decisions you make.

Understand, there's no right or wrong answer, I'd just take in everyone's advice and at the end of the day, do whatever feels right to you and don't give it another thought.  Smiley

As you know, I'm only a few months into being a Beek and while I started with 2 Nucs and have collected 10 swarms and a cutout to date, I've never done a package.  So take my advice with a grain of salt.  laugh

I was about to suggest putting them on the foundation, but I'm just realizing that's plastic.  So, I a little less enthusiastic about that recommendation....but still "think" I'd go that route.  As for trying to keep them anchored, the only advise I'd offer would be not to get into too much of a hurry to realease your queen.  Depending on they ship time, I'd consider leaving her for a good few days before even exposing the candy, they leave her for another few days before checking on her.

Good Luck, and enjoy your bees!  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 07:30:12 AM by Moots » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2013, 07:05:54 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply Moots.

Just one question, what was all the extra stuff. Looks like the computer went crazy.

I know I am over thinking this. Just a little intimidated and don't want to screw up and I know no matter what I do the bees will do what they want. Smiley

Thanks again

David
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2013, 07:32:19 AM »

GB,
LMAO!  Fixed it!....Sorry, Have no idea what happened there or how it happened, that was CRAZY!

Keep us posted on the bees.  I assume it's "one" package, correct?  Are others to follow?  If so, you might want to mix and match your approaches and see which you prefer.

Again, good luck!  Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 07:32:50 AM »

I would say you want some foundation in the hive. You can work it out later if the plastic really bothers you.
When starting with a nuc, the colony is usually increasing in size from day one. However ,after installing a package your bee numbers will decrease every day until the queen is able to have laid enough eggs and have them emerged to overcome the losses up to that point. You need to provide laying space asap with a package. Even with plastic foundation the bees are going to be able to expend more of their enrgy raisng and tending brood than building comb.
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2013, 07:33:41 AM »

Good luck and have fun!  Smiley
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2013, 09:37:48 AM »

Hey guys,

Will be putting in my first pkg late today need advice on frames.

I have both Mann Lake PF120's and F style foundationless from Walter Kelly can't decide which one to use.

If I use the 120's I plan to spray them with sugar water to get the bees to take to them.

Would like to use the f-style frames but I have no drawn comb to help them draw them straight.

Either way, I don't have any brood to anchor them to the hive.

Just trying to make the best choice for the bees.

I know no matter what I choice I make the bees may still leave.

Please give your suggestions.

Thanks David



You don't need drawn comb for them to draw it straight. And just because you do have drawn comb doesn't mean they'll draw it straight.
Here's a
video
of a guy doing his first inspection last year. He went foundationless and had no comb when he added the bees.

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 11:23:23 AM »

The point with the package is you nees to get the queen laying as soon as possible. She will not be relaesed for a few days, it may be a couple more before she starts laying and it will be close to three weeks before they hatch out. All this time the older bees in the package are dyeing off. Why  not use the foundations he has? They are bought and paid for.
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10framer
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 01:20:13 PM »

if you've got foundation use it.  if you start them out and they decide to build from side to side you will find yourself tearing out a lot of comb and setting the bees back by doing so.  save the attempt for going foundationless for your supers next year.  right now you need to be giving the bees every advantage possible to get a good start. 
i only watched part of the video but i thought it was hilarious that those guys were in full hazmat suits and then the poodle and the lady are walking around with no protection.  david, you don't need to use  as much smoke as they are using. 
i've got a wedding next weekend but get with me and let's see if we can get together the following week.  i haven't forgotten about you.  bring your veil and smoker when you come.
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 10:42:43 PM »

Congratulations on the bees! I started my first package last year on foundation and they did fine. I fed them 1:1 sugar water for a while and they had it all drawn out in no time. That's just my 2 cents, for what it's worth......David.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 07:56:03 AM »

if you've got foundation use it.  if you start them out and they decide to build from side to side you will find yourself tearing out a lot of comb and setting the bees back by doing so.  save the attempt for going foundationless for your supers next year.  right now you need to be giving the bees every advantage possible to get a good start.  i only watched part of the video but i thought it was hilarious that those guys were in full hazmat suits and then the poodle and the lady are walking around with no protection.  david, you don't need to use  as much smoke as they are using. 
i've got a wedding next weekend but get with me and let's see if we can get together the following week.  i haven't forgotten about you.  bring your veil and smoker when you come.


  th_thumbsupup




                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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Jim 134
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 08:15:17 AM »

I see you got the hive south in the spring in New England the bees will set building on east side of the hive.  (Hint:it is warmer on the east side)


 Hope you have a lots of fun

And YES It was hilarious to see the lady and dogs walking around with no protection.  
              

     lau lau lau

  

             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 09:40:45 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 08:54:51 AM »

You will also notice on foundationless the comb is very fragile early on. Inspecting the hive can knock it loose,resulting in issues you do not need with a new package.
If you see the same mans video here it tells what I'm talking about.
Bee Vlog #59 - July 19, 2012 - Part 2: Crooked comb


Bee Vlog #60 - July 29, 2012 - Part 1: Comb-on-comb
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 09:16:04 AM by buzzbee » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2013, 10:13:42 AM »

Congrats GB and in time you will figure it out. A wise man learns from his mistakes or the mistakes of others. Lots of good info on this site to avoid costly ones. I am into my second year and have gained much from the good folk here.
Blanc
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 10:53:44 AM »

GB, I would probably go with foundation.  This is the first year I have used any plastic foundation and it is in honey supers.  I lucked out in a way I bought established hives to start with.  I have caught swarms, and used a TBH for one of them.  It will take some what longer for them to build up on foundationless frames.  On the plastic frames it may help to get the bees to take to them with a spray of sugar syrup.  Good luck with whichever you choose and to YOUR bees.  Now the fun really begins.



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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2013, 12:38:31 PM »

Thanks guys and gals.

Did the install last night around 6:30. All went well.

Tried to upload the video but I think the file size is too large.  Will keep trying.

Decided to go with the Mann Lake PF120's. I sprayed each of them with sugar water to get the bees to take to them. Seemed to work.

After I placed the queen cage between the frames I placed the inner cover on the brood chamber.

I then put the hive top feeder on top of that. It is a shallow super feeder where the bees come up through the middle and climb down wire screen to get to the sugar water. Supposed to prevent drowning. I didn't want the bees to build burr comb on the bottom of the feeder that is why I placed it on top of the inner cover.  The bees should have access to the feeder through the hole in the inner cover.

Then placed the telescoping cover on top of the feeder and was done.

Hope this works. I'm thinking I might have to move the inner cover to the top of the feeder instead of its current location under it. We will see.

David
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 12:59:41 PM »

You cant upload directly to the forum. Create a youtube account, you'll probably do a lot of bee vids. Upload it there andf post the link in your thread.
If you need any help,I can assisist. Smiley
You should have the inner cover over the feeder. But if there are any gaps, close them up with something so other bees can't get into the topside of the feeder.
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2013, 01:33:00 PM »

Thanks Buzzbee.

I would say last question but somehow I know it won't be. Smiley

Should I move the inner cover today or will it be ok until I check to see if the queen has been released?

Thanks

David
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2013, 04:41:39 PM »

Took buzzbee's advice and moved the inner cover above the feeder now the bees are feeding.

Was feeling a little brave and did it without smoker, jacket, veil or gloves. Had absolutely no problems.  grin

David
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2013, 05:29:06 PM »

It would be awful quiet around here if nobody asked questions. And believe it or not, someone else probably has the same question but is afraid to speak up.
Thats why we share on the forum! Smiley
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Jim 134
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 08:42:18 AM »

It would be awful quiet around here if nobody asked questions. And believe it or not, someone else probably has the same question but is afraid to speak up.
Thats why we share on the forum! Smiley

 goodpost



                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 08:58:46 AM »

You already have both.  I'd put them on a box of the PF120s to get them regressed.  Then I would add the next box full of the foundationless frames.  I'd pull one or two drawn combs up from the bottom box to the next box when you do and replace them with the foundationless frames.
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 08:26:38 PM »

That is exactly the plan.

Thanks much Michael, buzzbee and everyone else for taking the time to share you knowledge with us lowly newbees. It means a lot.

It is really nice to know we are not alone.

Thanks

David.
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 09:08:45 PM »

@ 10framer tried to PM you but your inbox is full. Wednesday May 1st might work for me however I am on vacation as of May 6th we could get together then you that works for you.

Thanks

David
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2013, 12:31:38 AM »

Hey David, let me know how the plastic foundation goes. I tried to use some and the bees totaly rejected it. It wasn't wax coated.
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 08:03:17 PM »

Hey Ray,

Its day four and just checked the girls. Queen has been released and the girls are very busy building comb on the PF120's. They have partially drawn comb on 4 of 8 frames. These aren't small cell bees either but don't seem to have any trouble with the small cell foundation. I guess spraying them with sugar water might have helped. The PF120's are wax coated though.

Anyway we are on our way.





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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 08:44:48 PM »

GB,
Looking good....But remember, us super-pumped newbies really need to practive some self restraint and give the bees time to be bees and do there thing without too much disruption.  Day 4 may be a little quick, short of some compelling reason, I try and not disturb the girls more than once a week.  Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2013, 09:03:29 PM »

The only reason I went in today was to make sure the queen had been released and to remove the cage.

I am more than satisfied to sit on the outside and watch the girls in action.

Since I am using a hive top feeder I won't have to disturb them again for a while.

One question is once a week too much checking? I need to know when to add the next super. Don't want them to swarm.

Thanks

David

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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 09:14:38 PM »

GB,
Really not sure, I know I just used once a week as my yardstick to avoid the urge to be taking a peek daily.  laugh
It's probably a bit much but you have to strike a balance between the advantages of not disturbing them and the advantages of using inspections to learn as a new Beek. 

The other thing to consider is the length and depth of your inspection....not all inspections are created equal.   Smiley 
Depending on your intended goals, just because you go in a hive doesn't mean one has to pull and inspect every frame.  Lots of times you can get in and out quickly and cause little to no disruption.
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