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Author Topic: Investment Advice  (Read 10630 times)
luvin honey
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« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2013, 02:31:27 PM »

This new argument of yours is odd at best, Kathyp. Logic and emotion are simply part of being human. No matter what race, gender, age, political persuasion.
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The pedigree of honey
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2013, 02:54:47 PM »

This new argument of yours is odd at best, Kathyp. Logic and emotion are simply part of being human. No matter what race, gender, age, political persuasion.

    Logic...emotion ? ...think H. Clinton or Diane Fienstien when confronted with logic.
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kathyp
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« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2013, 03:22:35 PM »

Quote
Logic and emotion are simply part of being human. No matter what race, gender, age, political persuasion.

true, but how you make your decisions is influenced by what rules you.  if you primarily do things, or agree with things, because they feel good or seem nice, chances are you have let a lot of facts slip by.

leftists (not necessarily democrats) have always known this. that's why every pitch to the people who's votes they need is based on something warm and fuzzy, or some earth ending crisis.  doesn't matter whether it's drowning polar bear cubs, or some radio ad about starving kids so that the food stamp program can be expanded.  it's never about facts always about emotion...and more money.
and it's always about demonizing those nasty people who want dead polar bears and starving kids. 

that's not to say that we need Mr Spock running things, but facts and logic should come before emotion.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2013, 03:28:15 PM »

Quote
Logic and emotion are simply part of being human. No matter what race, gender, age, political persuasion.

true, but how you make your decisions is influenced by what rules you.  if you primarily do things, or agree with things, because they feel good or seem nice, chances are you have let a lot of facts slip by.

leftists (not necessarily democrats) have always known this. that's why every pitch to the people who's votes they need is based on something warm and fuzzy, or some earth ending crisis.  doesn't matter whether it's drowning polar bear cubs, or some radio ad about starving kids so that the food stamp program can be expanded.  it's never about facts always about emotion...and more money.
and it's always about demonizing those nasty people who want dead polar bears and starving kids. 

that's not to say that we need Mr Spock running things, but facts and logic should come before emotion.


In my life, it FEELS good to live life without any concerns whatsoever about natural resources, water tables, pollution. Very easy. But it's LOGICAL for me to consider the possibility that earth's resources are not boundless, ever pure, and all mine for the using. So I go with logic.

It also FEELS bad to me to consider that people on welfare may be abusing their help. But it's LOGICAL to me that if they are neglected, and their children, we will have an entirely new generation of people with serious health and social issues. So I choose logic and choose to help how I can, as distasteful at it is when I'm up close and in the face of it.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2013, 03:31:58 PM »

i think i mentioned that part about logic and facts going together?  if not, sorry. 

logic and facts go together.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2013, 03:36:04 PM »

? I don't get your point.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2013, 03:47:43 PM »

Quote
But it's LOGICAL to me that if they are neglected, and their children, we will have an entirely new generation of people with serious health and social issues.

as an example:  this is a supposition.  what are the facts that back it?  is there any study that shows more intervention by government makes any difference?  might there be studies that show 3 school meals a day and food stamps contribute to obesity?  that would blow the intervention argument away! 
are there any studies that show preventive care have a long term impact on health and length of life?
can we show were any programs have impacted the % of people with health and social issues?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2013, 03:55:25 PM »

I suppose that in the act of not starving to death (due to govt foodstamps), we now have the luxury to debate if we have contributed to obesity.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2013, 04:00:13 PM »

Quote
I suppose that in the act of not starving to death (due to govt foodstamps), we now have the luxury to debate if we have contributed to obesity.

what make you assume that people would starve to death in the absences of government largess?  i wouldn't let my neighbor starve, would you?  or, as government is now the arbiter of morality, is it also the green grocer?

if i fed my neighbor, i might make them mow my lawn   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2013, 04:05:14 PM »

You know, Kathy, our family is actually a part of this govt system. As a foster family, we ARE the people who house, clothe and feed the kids whose neighbors didn't do so. The people who HAVE support systems don't end up in the govt system. The others do. So, no, I wouldn't let my neighbor starve. But some people would.

It is not convenient to take in other people's children. It changes our schedule, our family dynamics, everything. So please don't get this sense that I'm a bleeding heart full of nonstop love and tenderness. I want to shake the parents and grandparents who can't pull it together, who can't get their act together. But when someone has mental illness, extremely low IQ, drug problems, chronic disease, it doesn't matter how badly I want them to raise their own children/grandchildren well. They simply can't. And nobody else in their life is doing it for them. And that's how some people end up needing help.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Fox Creek
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« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2013, 04:07:34 PM »

I suppose that in the act of not starving to death (due to govt foodstamps), we now have the luxury to debate if we have contributed to obesity.

    Believe it or not, there was once a time when family was responsible for their own. We relied on one another. Leftist have changed this and now we have......People who would starve to death? Gee, thanks! Good job! Well done!
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luvin honey
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« Reply #91 on: May 02, 2013, 04:13:59 PM »

Fox creek, women and children have been abused since the beginning of time. Here's a little history for you: http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/insights_law_society/ChildProtectionHistory.authcheckdam.pdf

If you think that children were all cared for, and well, and someone created Child Protective Services just for the heck of it, then I couldn't even begin to have a logical conversation with you.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #92 on: May 02, 2013, 04:19:11 PM »

you get paid to do it.
Quote
But when someone has mental illness, extremely low IQ, drug problems, chronic disease, it doesn't matter how badly I want them to raise their own children/grandchildren well. They simply can't. And nobody else in their life is doing it for them. And that's how some people end up needing help.


and so goes the liberal argument and up go our taxes.

here's the thing...i don't entirely disagree with you.  i disagree with how we have done things.  for instance, i was in support of keeping our state mental institution open.  i would have paid the taxes to do it  they said:  it was not kind. it was not a nice place. we could manage these people out in the community.  we could FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT. and we now have nuts running around our streets..never mind the ones who kill people.  

we used to have orphanages.  kids were cared for, fed, and educated.  now we have an industry that has simply changed how it warehouses kids and pays people for the privilege.  the states don't keep track. many of the foster parents and as trashy as the biological parents were, and it cost a fortune.  do the kids come out of the foster system in better shape than they came out of the orphanage?  no?  then why are we paying you so much so that we can have the same results.
 at the same time, we give the moms money to have more kids and never hold the fathers accountable.

i could go through the whole list, but you get the idea.  we are spending more money and at best, getting the same results.  for many things, worse results.  we are steadily making things worse, like medical care because those same touchy feely libs care more about the trial lawyers than tort reform, so things like charity hospitals and doctors doing charity work, are a thing of the past in most places.

libs did this.  you might think it was an accident, but it wasn't.  libs in power care about power.  they get more of it by taking over more stuff.  they get you to go for it by making you feel good.  

good for you. you take in foster kids.  maybe you do it from the goodness of your heart, but you don't do it for free.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #93 on: May 02, 2013, 04:20:28 PM »

Quote
If you think that children were all cared for, and well, and someone created Child Protective Services just for the heck of it, then I couldn't even begin to have a logical conversation with you.

are women and children less abused now?  if not, why are we paying for a service that makes no difference?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #94 on: May 02, 2013, 04:27:44 PM »

we used to have orphanages.  kids were cared for, fed, and educated.
Holy crap. I thought we might find a few things to agree on until I got to this sentence. I have a niece and nephew from 2 orphanages. One adopted as an infant, another as a toddler. The older child may never have a completely normal life. You might feel good about housing kids in orphanages, but it does not prepare them to live life in society. It is simply a housing method. And THAT'S not even describing the truly awful ones.

Please do not even HINT that I do foster care for the money. I earn far, far more money in my other jobs, with far less stress. You say "paying you so much." Do you even have a clue what foster parents get paid? Do you realize all expenses come out of that pittance? If you think it's such a money-making prospect, go for it. You clearly know how children should be raised.

You say libs did this for the power. Really? Perhaps some people see a complex situation, with no good answers, but a desperate need nonetheless, and simply can't just turn away and leave it be.

Actually, I need to stop. Everything you say about foster care pee'd me off so badly that I'm going to take a deep breath and walk away. You are clearly clueless, so it would be a good time for you to stop talking also. You are making an ass of yourself.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #95 on: May 02, 2013, 04:30:56 PM »

it's not how much you make, or anyone makes, it's the point that you are paid to do it.  it's not exactly charity. 
Quote
I have a niece and nephew from 2 orphanages.

not from this country, i'm guessing...which brings up other questions....

Quote
You clearly know how children should be raised.

careful, you almost sound emotional.

Quote
You say libs did this for the power. Really? Perhaps some people see a complex situation, with no good answers, but a desperate need nonetheless, and simply can't just turn away and leave it be.

do results matter at all?




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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #96 on: May 02, 2013, 04:36:14 PM »

I'm human, Kathy. I have emotions. And when someone tries very hard to stir the pot, I can get ticked off.

My family's history is simply not your business. I bring up orphanges to respond to your fantasy of American orphanages, which is strange since you say people should take care of their own kids.

I will also not share the "results" of our time spent with our foster and respite kids. I will reassure you, though, that their behavior, school performance, home behavior, everything, is monitored continually. A fair amount of my time is spent being in contact with people in every aspect of their lives to see how these kids are doing. Because, shocking as this is for you, not only do I NOT do this for money, I don't do this to blindly feel good without even looking at if it's helping. This is my life we're talking about. I hate to waste it. So I pay attention to if it's working.

I wonder if you have better things to do in life than piss off total strangers online. Like perhaps becoming a foster parent? Or starting an orphanage?

And, actually, how much a foster family makes IS kind of the point. I would say that earning $1/hour, for example, IS charity. It's enough to cover gas, food, clothing. But you go ahead and cling to the idea that people are in this for the big bucks if it helps you be able to attack it.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Fox Creek
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« Reply #97 on: May 02, 2013, 04:43:56 PM »

Fox creek, women and children have been abused since the beginning of time. Here's a little history for you: http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/insights_law_society/ChildProtectionHistory.authcheckdam.pdf

If you think that children were all cared for, and well, and someone created Child Protective Services just for the heck of it, then I couldn't even begin to have a logical conversation with you.


    Putting up a self serving web page proves nothing. Leftist have put people in the position, "don't worry, have as many children as you want. Tax payers will pay and manage your life."  Nice.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #98 on: May 02, 2013, 04:46:25 PM »

Yeah, the American Bar Association has such a leftist agenda. If you refuse to even consider the history of child protection, then how do you expect someone to simply take your word on it?
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Fox Creek
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Location: Pollock Pines Ca.


« Reply #99 on: May 02, 2013, 04:50:41 PM »

Yeah, the American Bar Association has such a leftist agenda. If you refuse to even consider the history of child protection, then how do you expect someone to simply take your word on it?

    Do you know who John EB Myers is? He makes a living off this.
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