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Author Topic: Investment Advice  (Read 9661 times)
luvin honey
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« Reply #120 on: May 06, 2013, 10:56:10 AM »

""I'm assuming you're retired, and you used to be in the military, so actually the vast majority of my taxes go to you, and people employed as you were. Some of that I'm okay with, some not so much.""

I cannot believe Lovin Honey just stated she is glad to see her tax dollars given to folks who do nothing, but object to giving them to someone who lays their life on the line, goes without common conveniences, and works daily to keep her safe.

Now THAT'S a true liberal.
I appreciate the sacrifices of the men and women in the military, including my own cousins. I do not appreciate trillions (billions?) poured into Iraq with not much to show for it except tremendous loss of life.

If being a conservative means blind support of ALL expenditures in the Defense, then obviously I'm not a conservative. I thought you all were more logical than that.

Kingbee, your nonstop condescension and sarcasm really aren't helpful to this conversation. I'd like for you to explain why businesses ARE hiring more, then. Please do give us some investment help, as this is what this particular thread is about.

This is SO typical. Anyone who tries to actually comment on the topic at hand is immediately shredded, while those doing the criticizing and nitpicking have nothing constructive to offer.
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kathyp
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« Reply #121 on: May 06, 2013, 12:32:01 PM »

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I'd like for you to explain why businesses ARE hiring more, then. Please do give us some investment help, as this is what this particular thread is about.

are they?  we have shrinking workforce.  more people out of the work force now than anytime since the 30's.  more people working part time rather than full time.  teen and minority unemployment is at levels more than double the real unemployment number and kids graduating from college only have a 50% chance of finding a job.

Quote
. I do not appreciate trillions (billions?) poured into Iraq with not much to show for it except tremendous loss of life.


Iraq had a strategic value to us.  this president threw it away.  Afghanistan, on the other hand, is worthless.  even so we poor lives and money into that hell hole. what will we have to show for it?

because my entire family is impacted by decisions to go to war, there are probably few people on earth who look at that decision more closely than i.  mistakes were made in iraq.  not in the decision to go in, that was entirely justified.  mistakes in execution and in the after planning.  those mistakes were overcome.  iraq might have been one shining star of secular democracy, but obama has blown that.

your opinion on iraq comes from liberal talking points.  all the documentation on it is available, both from the UN, and other outside sources.

that's kind of a side issue.  no, you don't need to support all things defense to be a conservative.  i don't.  right now, i really don't.  you do need to know history and understand that every time we have degraded our defenses it has invited war, and it has cost us more in the long run to correct.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #122 on: May 06, 2013, 03:40:36 PM »

You haven't done this Kathy, but I do hate everyone playing the patriotism card every time the military is questioned. You don't want a president to go unquestioned (the general you), so why on earth would you be okay with blind allegiance to the military? I honor the lives and sacrifices made by our service men and women. I also note that they have offered themselves to this life. And I am grateful for the freedom of speech that allows me to say that I don't think anything done in Afghanistan or Iraq have "daily kept me safe." It's strange to me, iddee, that you want such a level of accountability from certain segments of our government, but not others. Conservative spending in some parts, but not others. It would be interesting to see how much of our current debt would simply not exist if we hadn't spent the last 11+ years blowing money on 2 wars that haven't brought democracy/stability to the middle east (grandiosity, Mr. Bush?) or anything much else. I don't know the answer to the Taliban or al Qaeda, but this doesn't appear to have worked so well.
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sterling
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« Reply #123 on: May 06, 2013, 05:55:51 PM »

You haven't done this Kathy, but I do hate everyone playing the patriotism card every time the military is questioned. You don't want a president to go unquestioned (the general you), so why on earth would you be okay with blind allegiance to the military? I honor the lives and sacrifices made by our service men and women. I also note that they have offered themselves to this life. And I am grateful for the freedom of speech that allows me to say that I don't think anything done in Afghanistan or Iraq have "daily kept me safe." It's strange to me, iddee, that you want such a level of accountability from certain segments of our government, but not others. Conservative spending in some parts, but not others. It would be interesting to see how much of our current debt would simply not exist if we hadn't spent the last 11+ years blowing money on 2 wars that haven't brought democracy/stability to the middle east (grandiosity, Mr. Bush?) or anything much else. I don't know the answer to the Taliban or al Qaeda, but this doesn't appear to have worked so well.

It would also be interesting to see how many more terrorist attacks we would have had on our homeland had we sat back and saved our money. You should have learned something on Sept. 11, 2001. They were coming for us the US. Were we supposed to sit over here and wait on um. And it wasn't solved but was working before Obama got in there and screwed everything up. In Iraq we spent billions in dollars and spent a lot of blood and Obama gave Iraq back to the enemy. A lot of it ended up a waste because of a complete pull out.
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Moots
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« Reply #124 on: May 06, 2013, 06:24:26 PM »

You haven't done this Kathy, but I do hate everyone playing the patriotism card every time the military is questioned. You don't want a president to go unquestioned (the general you), so why on earth would you be okay with blind allegiance to the military? I honor the lives and sacrifices made by our service men and women. I also note that they have offered themselves to this life. And I am grateful for the freedom of speech that allows me to say that I don't think anything done in Afghanistan or Iraq have "daily kept me safe." It's strange to me, iddee, that you want such a level of accountability from certain segments of our government, but not others. Conservative spending in some parts, but not others. It would be interesting to see how much of our current debt would simply not exist if we hadn't spent the last 11+ years blowing money on 2 wars that haven't brought democracy/stability to the middle east (grandiosity, Mr. Bush?) or anything much else. I don't know the answer to the Taliban or al Qaeda, but this doesn't appear to have worked so well.

Nothing done in Afghanistan or Iraq has kept you safe?

Are you kidding me?  So, what do you attribute going 11+ years since the 911 attacks without a significant attack on American soil?  Blind luck?

Democracy and stability in the middle east was always a secondary "hopeful" goal.  The primary mission was and always will be to protect the homeland.  Something that's been done UNBELIEVABLY well!  We took the fight to them...They've been so busy playing defense, they've had no time for offense.

Lastly, I know from your earlier post that you seem to get your billions and trillions confused.  Stop drinking the MSM Kool-aid and run the actual numbers.  What was spent on the two wars isn't a drop in the bucket compared to the National debt.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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kathyp
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« Reply #125 on: May 06, 2013, 06:55:38 PM »

Quote
It would also be interesting to see how many more terrorist attacks we would have had on our homeland had we sat back and saved our money

this answer doesn't have to be complete speculation.  we know from UBL that one of the reasons he had confidence in attacking us here, is that we had pretty much ignored prior attacks.  not only attacks on us by random islamists, but when UBL became a force, attacks directed by him, against us. the majority of these came during the clinton admin.  

we had a few  problems during those years.  one was that the military was cut back to the point where going to war at all was a risk.  the second was that our intel operation had been decimated.  
not only did we scale back our human intelligence gathering with his 'human rights scrub', but clintons justice department strengthened the divisions between agencies.

clition was risk averse when it came to using the military.  you can see some comparison between what he did and what obama does.  they were happy to do small things like Kosovo or Lybia, but didn't want to do anything big.  that's fine.  i'm not advocating for getting involved in something like syria.  it's none of our business unless they are attacking allies or doing something else that is going to be a danger. i would fully be behind blowing the crap out of iran.

clinton talked about the UBL risk.  he recognized the danger.  he failed to act.  he also recognized the iraq danger.  he failed to act.  no, i don't think iraq and UBL acted together, but i do believe that both acted for the same reason.  they knew we were weak.  the info we had on iraq even before 9/11 was hair raising, not to mention Saddam openly offering rewards for terrorist attacks against us and others.  to say that we made a mistake going in there is to prove that you have not done your homework.
as for 9/11, the only thing surprising about it was that it didn't happen earlier.

so, here we are.  we have another risk averse president who is bound and determined to white wash terrorism.  i suspect things like boston are to terrorists what a shoe store is to someone with a foot fetish.  what can we expect?  more of the same here, and overseas.  especially since it seems to be our policy to support radicals overseas....and here....
we are seeing an escalations in attacks, both here and overseas.  UBL was a financier and a figure head, but he was not an operations master.  killing him did not make us safer, nice as it was to make him dead.

because we fail to understand the enemy, we are destined to confront him time and again.  sometimes we are going to lose in those confrontations.

  

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #126 on: May 07, 2013, 12:03:56 AM »

Security of the homeland has been pretty good since 9/11. I don't see the level of violence in the middle east going down by us bringing war there. I don't see the issues there as solvable. Whether we are at war there, or they try to bring it here, either way we have to protect the homeland, which has been done fairly well for the most part.

Kathy, you want to blame Clinton for not acting about bin Laden, but not Bush? Clinton warned Bush about him as he left office. Bush only reacted after it was too late, and then in the wrong place.

I realize that national security is a very complex issue, that I have very little of the information that the decision makers have. I'd say that things like no-bid defense contracts, for example, would be one way defense money is wasted. My family of origin is in a business that relies on bids. Cannot even imagine the corruption that would happen if people were awarded huge contracts without the bidding and oversight process.

Moots, I have no idea what MSM is. If you mean MSNBC, I don't even have a tv. Here's one war cost estimate:
http://costsofwar.org/article/economic-cost-summary

And a few scenarios to give perspective:
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-16/news/30078831_1_iraq-and-afghanistan-air-conditioning-defense-budget

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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #127 on: May 07, 2013, 12:27:46 AM »

Quote
Kathy, you want to blame Clinton for not acting about bin Laden, but not Bush? Clinton warned Bush about him as he left office. Bush only reacted after it was too late, and then in the wrong place.

we were attacked multiple times under clinton.  not only did he fail to react, but he took steps that made us less safe.  so what?  as he went out the door he said, "oh, that bin laden guy, you'd better get right on killing him....with what i left you"
  if you really want to compare clintons 8 years to bush's 8 months...then i guess you can. interesting that 5 years after bush, it's all still his fault, but 8 month after clinton, clinton is absolved.

Quote
I'd say that things like no-bid defense contracts, for example, would be one way defense money is wasted. My family of origin is in a business that relies on bids. Cannot even imagine the corruption that would happen if people were awarded huge contracts without the bidding and oversight process.

it generally has nothing to do with corruption.  no bids are awarded when time is an issue, when you already have a company working in an area, or when the company is the only one able to do the job or do it in a timely fashion. 
take a company like Halliburton.  it's everyone's favorite whipping boy, but the reason both clinton and bush gave them no bid contracts is that they had programs that filled all the military gaps from the "peace dividend".  clinton massively cut the military and that looked really good on paper, but all those jobs he cut out were training and support jobs.  they still needed to be done so the jobs went to contractors.  Halliburton was ready to do the job, had the people, had the infrastructure.  same reason we use companies like blackwater, or whatever they are called now.

MSM is main stream media. it includes your NPR.

i can't address your numbers.  they may be right.  i looked at the site and the "who we are" section.  running through the names causes me to think that more likely than not, the numbers are over stated.  even so, war is expensive.  i can't see that it could be called a non-partisan site with that lineup.

this from the Business Insider is interesting

    The amount the U.S. spends in Afghanistan and Iraq each month could run the entire State Department for four months.
    For the cost of one month in Iraq and Afghanistan, NASA could have launched the space shuttle five more times.
    Medicare's 2003 expanded drug benefits for seniors that will cost $385 billion over 10 years could be paid for with 40 months of Pentagon spending in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Two years of air conditioning for troops in Afghanistan at $38 billion could provide 40 years of federal Amtrak funding.
    Five years of fuel for vehicles, generators and aircraft in Afghanistan at $10.3 billion could have paid for the 2010 EPA budget.

of all the things listed, the only thing that is a legitimate job of the feds is the state department.  think how much money we could save if we dumped all the things that are not the constitutional job of the feds?

even in a time of war, war and defense spending are not budget breakers.  it's social welfare programs that take the biggest bite out of the budget.  those things that you support, but give us 0 return.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
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« Reply #128 on: May 07, 2013, 12:54:47 PM »

And how many billions is Obama giving Egypt in tanks and fighter jets? I guess that's alright to the liberals and Luvin.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #129 on: May 08, 2013, 01:49:03 AM »

First off there are no liberal beeks.  There's 2 or 3 moderate beeks and a whole bunch of extreme right wing conservatives  Wink

How many billions did Bush Jr give to the previous dictator of Egypt?  Is dictatorship one of our core constitutional values?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #130 on: May 08, 2013, 01:53:36 AM »

Wow!  Dow = 15,000!  

Who would have dreamed it was possible after Dubya nearly put an end to capitalism in 2007.  The Dow closed today at another record over 15,000 for the first time ever.  I bet even the Gipper is looking down from that shining city in the sky and applauding how the Obama administration has saved capitalism. applause applause applause

I know beeks like to complain about the 2% inflation rate we’ve suffered under Obama, but if your investments are up 80% (on average), why nit pick over a little inflation?  Take a look at the broader picture.  
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Moots
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« Reply #131 on: May 08, 2013, 07:11:58 AM »

Wow!  Dow = 15,000!  

Who would have dreamed it was possible after Dubya nearly put an end to capitalism in 2007.  The Dow closed today at another record over 15,000 for the first time ever.  I bet even the Gipper is looking down from that shining city in the sky and applauding how the Obama administration has saved capitalism. applause applause applause

I know beeks like to complain about the 2% inflation rate we’ve suffered under Obama, but if your investments are up 80% (on average), why nit pick over a little inflation?  Take a look at the broader picture.  


WOW!  
Once again Blue baits his hook and tosses his line in the water. Yet another blatantly obvious trolling attempt to poke folks with a verbal stick and try and get a reaction.  So predictable!  Kind of sad, kind of funny...always entertaining.  Smiley

So allow me to play...

Blue is WOWED because the Dow is at 15000, and life is GREAT!

Never mind a few annoying facts:
This recovery (if you can call it that) has been anemic and painfully slow, held back by the policies of BO.  
Unemployment, not to mention real unemployment remains at record highs.
Over 9.5 million people have left the workforce since BO was elected, the lowest it's been in about 30 years.
Something they use to love to blast 43 for...high gas prices!  We still have them, we just don't hear it anymore.
And we're 7,000,000,000,000 deeper in debt.

Just to name a few!

But hey, The DOW is at 15000 and Blue's investments are up, so we're suppose to believe life is great. WOW!

Blue, tell me "exactly" what Obama has done to get the DOW to 15000?
The DOW is at 15,000 inspite of BO, not because of him.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 07:44:36 AM by Moots » Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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iddee
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« Reply #132 on: May 08, 2013, 07:22:42 AM »

""First off there are no liberal beeks.  There's 2 or 3 moderate beeks and a whole bunch of extreme right wing conservatives""

And a couple of far left liberals that wouldn't recognize the truth if it sat on them.
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kathyp
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« Reply #133 on: May 08, 2013, 10:28:26 AM »

Quote
The DOW is at 15,000 inspite of BO, not because of him.

and fed res pumping  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
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« Reply #134 on: May 08, 2013, 10:43:28 AM »

First off there are no liberal beeks.  There's 2 or 3 moderate beeks and a whole bunch of extreme right wing conservatives  Wink

How many billions did Bush Jr give to the previous dictator of Egypt?  Is dictatorship one of our core constitutional values?

Speaking of liberals Blue I never could find your response explaining how Romney was more liberal then Obama. Please retype it here please. Smiley
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sterling
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« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2013, 10:46:39 AM »

First off there are no liberal beeks.  There's 2 or 3 moderate beeks and a whole bunch of extreme right wing conservatives  Wink

How many billions did Bush Jr give to the previous dictator of Egypt?  Is dictatorship one of our core constitutional values?

Bush is not in office any more and hasn't been in over four years. shocked We are talking about this present outfit and the money they are spending.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #136 on: May 08, 2013, 12:33:29 PM »

If the economy sucks, you blame Obama.
If the economy improves, you say it really isn't, and still blame Obama.

Tell me, WHAT would something need to look like before you'd possibly acknowledge that he may have done some good? 0% unemployment? Gas back at 50 cents/gallon? Zero national debt?
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
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Moots
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« Reply #137 on: May 08, 2013, 02:10:41 PM »

If the economy sucks, you blame Obama.
If the economy improves, you say it really isn't, and still blame Obama.

Tell me, WHAT would something need to look like before you'd possibly acknowledge that he may have done some good? 0% unemployment? Gas back at 50 cents/gallon? Zero national debt?


luvin honey,
You are either incapable of, or unwilling to listen to a logical argument, I'm not sure which it is, and I'm not sure it really matters!

You and Blue want to believe the economy is doing great and things are wonderful.  I think that's great, I'm happy for the both of you.  But don't try to piss down my back and tell me it's raining....I'm not buying it!  grin
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
kathyp
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« Reply #138 on: May 08, 2013, 02:57:17 PM »

Quote
If the economy sucks, you blame Obama.
If the economy improves, you say it really isn't, and still blame Obama.

Tell me, WHAT would something need to look like before you'd possibly acknowledge that he may have done some good? 0% unemployment? Gas back at 50 cents/gallon? Zero national debt?


perhaps seeing any of the usual indicators going in the right direction?  maybe seeing the debt stabilizing and some attempt to control spending so that we can begin to pay it down?

sucking economies happen.  they happen to both parties.  they are part of the natural cycle of a free market.  it is the reaction to a sucking economy that matters.  this president has chosen to do all the things that history has already told us, don't work.  for his choices, yes, i blame him.

i don't know how you evaluate an improving economy.  if you do that by the stock market numbers, then yes, in your eyes it is improving.  since most of us know that there is little relationship between what the stock market does and the real economy, we are not impressed.  in fact, we are worried.

yes, i'd like to see unemployment back to a statistical 0.  it's quite possible. statistical 0 is generally agreed to be under 5%.  

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
 we could probably have gas back at .50 cents if we drilled our own, built refineries, and lifted the stupid requirements for a gazillion different mixes of fuel, including ethanol.  i don't have a problem with CA requiring expensive mixes, but they need to pay for it themselves...along with all the states with these foolish laws.
i'd be happy to be down to a couple of bucks.  it just cost me over 200 dollars to fill my pickup.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #139 on: May 08, 2013, 03:26:39 PM »



    Kathp.   We here in Ca. are paying anywhere between 30 to 70 cents per gallon (fuel) more than most other states. All while we have refineries right here in the Bay Area. Go figure.

    I have a question for Luvin and Blue. ...Liberals have had control of governing Ca. for decades. Now Liberals are in complete control. Ca. is ruined financially. Taxes are so high, business and families are leaving in droves. Allen Combs, a liberal, has said, " The left cant blame anyone but themselves for the mess Ca. is in." So Blue, Luvin, explain.
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