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Author Topic: Investment Advice  (Read 8062 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #100 on: May 02, 2013, 04:50:51 PM »

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which is strange since you say people should take care of their own kids.

did i?

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My family's history is simply not your business.

you did, indeed, bring it up.

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I will also not share the "results" of our time spent with our foster and respite kids

results are kind of important.  just knowing your results would not matter.  believe it or not, this is not about you.  overall, are we getting better results with the foster care system then we go with the orphanage system.  if not, why do we continue with an expensive system that is not giving results?

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I would say that earning $1/hour, for example, IS charity. It's enough to cover gas, food, clothing. But you go ahead and cling to the idea that people are in this for the big bucks if it helps you be able to attack i

fist, i didn't say that people were in it for money.  following your line of logic, welfare is charity?  odd way to look at forced contributions.

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I wonder if you have better things to do in life than piss off total strangers online.


nope!   grin


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #101 on: May 02, 2013, 04:53:07 PM »

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Yeah, the American Bar Association has such a leftist agenda. If you refuse to even consider the history of child protection, then how do you expect someone to simply take your word on it?

they are, although there are worse...

so what is the real history.  are things better because we spend more money on things?

i am all for things that work, but why do they insist on taking more money and throwing more money at problems, then showing no results?
Head Start is a fantastic example of an expensive program that has no merit...except as a babysitting service....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2013, 05:54:30 PM »

Interesting you should bring them up, as I just listened to a program about that survey on the way home. I'm sure you've heard how the randomized groups de-randomized themselves. Although it sounds like HS still has a long way to go. Don't know much about the program, but I'm sure paying HS teachers half of what other teachers earn doesn't help.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2013, 06:15:21 PM »

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Don't know much about the program, but I'm sure paying HS teachers half of what other teachers earn doesn't help.

because more money fixes everything? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2013, 10:58:49 AM »

Because talented people may want to be paid decent wages.
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The pedigree of honey
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Moots
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« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2013, 11:10:25 AM »

Because talented people may want to be paid decent wages.

It's not about what people "want"...it's about what the market will bear!   Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2013, 11:29:51 AM »

That’s the dilemma we’re in now because of globalization.  What the “market will bear” keeps dropping to the lowest common denominator.  Why does that “shining city on a hill” want to become Mogadishu? 
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kathyp
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« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2013, 12:03:33 PM »

http://www.ehow.com/info_8610934_much-make-working-head-start.html

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Because talented people may want to be paid decent wages.


looks like they are right in range with other preschool teachers.  + they get benefits that other preschool teacher most likely do not get.  they are paid with my tax dollars.  if i am not getting results, why should i support the program?  if preschool were so very important to the development of a child, and there is no proof that it is, then this would be another place to voucher the kids and let the market weed out good schools from bad.
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What the “market will bear” keeps dropping to the lowest common denominator.  Why does that “shining city on a hill” want to become Mogadishu? 


that would not be a problem if the union demands and regulations had not driven cost past market forces. 

the shining city was not about how much money you make.  the fact that you think it is, is very telling.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
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« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2013, 12:31:42 PM »

What “market forces”?   $8 per day labor in China?  $3 per day in Pakistan?  $5 per day in Mexico? 

Maybe that City on a Hill Reagan visualized was in Mexico?  Wonder if he also visualized open sewers along the highway to the city?  Ah, the wonders of the 3rd world. 

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luvin honey
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« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2013, 01:05:20 PM »

looks like they are right in range with other preschool teachers.  + they get benefits that other preschool teacher most likely do not get.  they are paid with my tax dollars.  if i am not getting results, why should i support the program?  if preschool were so very important to the development of a child, and there is no proof that it is, then this would be another place to voucher the kids and let the market weed out good schools from bad.
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What the “market will bear” keeps dropping to the lowest common denominator.  Why does that “shining city on a hill” want to become Mogadishu? 


that would not be a problem if the union demands and regulations had not driven cost past market forces. 

the shining city was not about how much money you make.  the fact that you think it is, is very telling.
Here's one study of African-American children in Michigan: http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED366433&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED366433

"Cost-benefit analysis revealed that, over the lifetimes of the participants, the preschool program returned to the public an estimated $7.16 for every dollar spent."

The fact that you keep referring to "your tax dollars" and "you not getting results" is very telling also.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2013, 01:11:31 PM »

that's a government site.  they kind of depend on tax dollars, don't they?

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The fact that you keep referring to "your tax dollars" and "you not getting results" is very telling also.

would i shop in a store that i didn't feel gave me value for my money?  it is MY money.  it's not the governments money.  the government takes it from me and from you.  if we are not getting a good return on our money, do you think we should be happy with that?

it's telling that you don't seem understand that everything the government does, it does with money it takes from those who work.  it then gives it away somewhere.  if we don't watch our money do you think the government, or the people getting our money from the government, will?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2013, 01:15:03 PM »

that's a government site.  they kind of depend on tax dollars, don't they?

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The fact that you keep referring to "your tax dollars" and "you not getting results" is very telling also.

would i shop in a store that i didn't feel gave me value for my money?  it is MY money.  it's not the governments money.  the government takes it from me and from you.  if we are not getting a good return on our money, do you think we should be happy with that?

it's telling that you don't seem understand that everything the government does, it does with money it takes from those who work.  it then gives it away somewhere.  if we don't watch our money do you think the government, or the people getting our money from the government, will?
It's pretty basic, Kathy. Even I can understand it. Glad my kids didn't need preschool, but they were lucky enough to have a mom at home who spent a lot of time reading to them, having life experiences and incidentally getting them very ready for school. Not all children have that. Then they hit kindergarten and are already WAY behind their peers. So, like many things in life, I'm glad to not need them but would be happy for my tax dollars to go to them anyway since they actually DO help less fortunate children keep up with their peers. Including the child we help care for right now who had the privilege of 4K before heading into kindergarten. Despite never being read to in his life before 4K and spending time with us, he's up to grade level on everything.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2013, 03:03:16 PM »

the basic difference between us, i think, is that you think that for every problem, there should be a government program.  following that line of thinking, we have spent Trillions of dollars to solve the problems of society, yet none are solved.  what we have done is waste tons of money and absolve a large part of the population of any kind of personal responsibility

oh...and we have made people who depend on feelings, feel good.

do you think that child would have caught up without the program?  would you not have done the training?  just think, if the child had been in an orphanage, the same would have been done.   evil

no program should be funded because it makes people like you feel good.  no program should be funded as a matter of convenience.  no program should be funded to help get a segment of the population to vote for a particular ideology.  no program should be funded by the federal government that falls outside the constitutional mandates of the federal government. 

you are happy to pay taxes for stuff that makes you feel like you are doing something.  do you ever analyze the data on any of these programs to see that your money is well spent?  your taxes are a part of your budget.  would you treat any other part of your budget the same?

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/head-start-tragic-waste-money

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2013, 03:34:22 PM »

The basic difference between us, Kathy, is you think it's funny to joke about children in orphanages and I do not.

I'm assuming you're retired, and you used to be in the military, so actually the vast majority of my taxes go to you, and people employed as you were. Some of that I'm okay with, some not so much.

Back to the topic at hand, BlueBee, I got an e-mail today informing me that the S&P hit a new high, even higher than 2007!
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2013, 03:45:32 PM »

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I'm assuming you're retired,

and you just proved that old saying about assumptions.  even if you were right, you got something in return for your taxes. 

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, I got an e-mail today informing me that the S&P hit a new high, even higher than 2007!

this is good for people who depend on dividends, etc., but did your email mention that Bernanke is pumping again?  do you  understand what that does to the value of our dollar.  do you understand that the stock market is surging based on this pumping rather than on good underlying economic news?  what happens then when the pumping is over?

a bubble is a bubble is a bubble, and the end result is always pretty much the same.  if you time it right, you can make a killing.  lets hope we all time it right......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #115 on: May 03, 2013, 03:57:20 PM »

Do you understand it is wise to invest in the market over a long timeframe rather than "playing" the market and trying to avoid bubbles. And as much as it galls Obama haters to admit it, there actually ARE some promising signs in the economy that businesses are seeing and in turn loosening up their pocketbooks a bit.

I know that my tax dollars for Iraq did crap. And there have been a LOT of tax dollars going there.

I'm glad to know that you won't be cashing your SS check when you DO retire, government handout that it is. I've been worried your generation would suck it all dry and have never relied on SS income in my retirement planning. But if your generation is asabhorrent of govt handouts as you are, then perhaps my retirement is a bit safer than I assumed.

And, yes, I realize we all pay into SS, including you. However, it's still a govt run and govt administered program.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2013, 04:48:28 PM »

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Do you understand it is wise to invest in the market over a long timeframe rather than "playing" the market and trying to avoid bubbles


depends on your age and how much you are/are going to be, dependent on that income.

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And as much as it galls Obama haters to admit it, there actually ARE some promising signs in the economy that businesses are seeing and in turn loosening up their pocketbooks a bit.


ok.  what are they.  how, exactly, is the economy or the employment picture improving?  and if they are, what government programs have contributed to that improvement?
don't know if you ever read this or the entire paper, but i think it applies here as well.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/fdr-s-policies-prolonged-depression-5409.aspx

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I'm glad to know that you won't be cashing your SS check when you DO retire, government handout that it is. I've been worried your generation would suck it all dry and have never relied on SS income in my retirement planning. But if your generation is asabhorrent of govt handouts as you are, then perhaps my retirement is a bit safer than I assumed.

And, yes, I realize we all pay into SS, including you. However, it's still a govt run and govt administered program.


i would gladly have opted out if given the choice.  same with medicare.  we were not given the choice.  at the point where you have taken out more than you have put in + interest, it is welfare.  no doubt about that.  every man, woman, and child on disability is drawing SSI as welfare. 
it is the perfect example of the government thinking that they can take care of you better than you can care for yourself.  it is the perfect example of government failing to do as it said it would, or to accomplish what it said it would.
it is the perfect example of a relatively small government program growing and growing and growing.....


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I know that my tax dollars for Iraq did crap. And there have been a LOT of tax dollars going there.


of all the tax dollars spent on war and warish things over the last 15 years, that was probably money well spent.  of course, this president managed to screw up what was the best of it, and invest in what was the worst.  Iraq was a far better investment than Afghanistan, never mind all the other crap he's managed to get involved in.

regardless of your opinion on iraq or any other war, that is something that the government is constitutionally within it's bounds to do.  unlike...for instance...paying for preschool.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Moots
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« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2013, 04:49:00 PM »


Back to the topic at hand, BlueBee, I got an e-mail today informing me that the S&P hit a new high, even higher than 2007!

7 TRILLION deeper in debt, 9.5 Million fewer people in the work force since Obama's been elected....but hey none of that matters, because the S&P hit a new high! lau UNBELIEVABLE!

When 43 was in office and the market was up, all we heard about was how that didn't matter and wall street was nothing but a bunch of greedy rich capitalist.  We also had to hear daily how out of control gas prices were and how it was crushing most families. 

However, with BO, gas prices are as high as ever and you don't hear a peep from the MSM...and the Market being up, well that's proof that life is WONDERFUL!

It's amazing how much easier it is to be President when you have the MSM running interference for you and the majority of the public is willing to drink the kool-aid.  grin
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iddee
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« Reply #118 on: May 04, 2013, 11:14:09 AM »

""I'm assuming you're retired, and you used to be in the military, so actually the vast majority of my taxes go to you, and people employed as you were. Some of that I'm okay with, some not so much.""

I cannot believe Lovin Honey just stated she is glad to see her tax dollars given to folks who do nothing, but object to giving them to someone who lays their life on the line, goes without common conveniences, and works daily to keep her safe.

Now THAT'S a true liberal.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kingbee
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« Reply #119 on: May 04, 2013, 10:33:16 PM »

...

there actually ARE some promising signs in the economy that businesses are seeing and in turn loosening up their pocketbooks

a bit....


The only pocket books being loosened are the pocketbooks Obama has his fingers in.

Do you really think that businesses can hire people Willi Nilly without any though about how or with what they are going to meet the payroll week after week???  I guess you think that every one but yourself would be happy as pie to be paid in either firewood or hickory nuts.  Incredible.
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