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Author Topic: mean bees  (Read 1531 times)
tryintolearn
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« on: April 11, 2013, 08:08:06 AM »

i have a mean dispositioned hive here with 2 deeps strong hive.  i got two queens yesterday from a supplier.  i am wanting to take the queen out of the bad mean ugly stinging hive there and get some new genetics going here.  a friend said i shud separate the 2 deeps and wait a few days to see which is queenless and then add the queen to that one.  i bought 2 queens cause i have one small nuc that is queenless..  although i was going to add a frame of eggs and larvae from the nasty hive to the nuc...thinking about it here... i dont want another ill tempered one in yard so shud i separate the 2 deeps and add queen to each of them?  and wait and see if i can get the frames from the new laying queens to add to the nuc?
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rbinhood
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 08:35:14 AM »

Even after you requeen your hives it will take about six to eight weeks before you will see a dramatic change in the disposition of the bees.  The bees that are presently occupying the hive will have to die off before you will see a total change in them.  It will not be and instant change.  If you have two queens on hand I would move the old queen to the nuke and split and requeen the two deeps.  Now that is just what I would do others have other ways of doing things this is just what I would do.  Good luck.
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10framer
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 08:46:33 AM »

put one queen in the nuc, kill the queen in the strong hive, go back in a while and do a walk away split on that hive.  that way none of your queens carry the genetics of the mean queen unless they are passed down through her drones.
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RHBee
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 08:53:25 AM »

If it were me I would split the large hive but only for the purpose of finding the ill tempered queen. Smaller population is the only way I can consistently find a queen. Separate the two halves leaving one in the original position so the field bees return to it then go through the smaller half. Who knows you might be better than me and find the queen while splitting them up. If she is not in the first half repeat the process for the second half by swapping location first. Once she is done away with rejoin the two halves making sure to remove any thing that looks like a queen cell and introduce the new queen. I would give the second queen to the nuc right away.
Free advice is worth what you pay for it but it's all I got. Good luck.
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Haddon
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 12:03:39 PM »

I second rbinhood

then the mean queen will have a smaller hive that always makes them easier to work and you can requeen the nuc later and come out the deal with 3 hives

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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 12:10:36 PM »

Logically you would think it would take months after replacing the queen for their attitude to change. In reality it only takes a few days. That is because the queens pheromone control the attitude of the hive. A lack of a queen can also leave them grumpy especially the first couple of days.
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 05:53:12 PM »

put one queen in the nuc, kill the queen in the strong hive, go back in a while and do a walk away split on that hive.  that way none of your queens carry the genetics of the mean queen unless they are passed down through her drones.

Doing a walk away split will result in queens raise from brood that was laid by the unwanted queen.

 Here's a youtube video of a guy requeening an aggressive hive. You'll have to let us know if your bees are as nasty as these. I've seen videos of Africanized honey bees that weren't as aggressive as these.
 This shows that the bees do remain extremely defensive even after the removal of the queen. Since you already have your queens, I would go through and kill the old queen and requeen that hive. Then it depends on how soon you want to do a split. You can queen the nuc, wait two weeks then check the hive for new eggs. By then, any eggs laid by the old queen will be capped, so you'll be looking for eggs and young larva.
 As soon as you have a couple frames with eggs and larva, you shouldn't have a problem doing a split with fresh stock. Good luck


Requeening A Vicious Honeybee Hive


 After you dispatch the mean queen, don't just toss her away. Get a small bottle with a little bit of alcohol and drop her in and mash her up. You can then use it as a swarm bait lure. Stick a Qtip in and then rub the inside of the swarm trap with it and drop the Qtip into the trap.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:38:55 PM by Steel Tiger » Logged
10framer
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 06:36:48 PM »

put one queen in the nuc, kill the queen in the strong hive, go back in a while and do a walk away split on that hive.  that way none of your queens carry the genetics of the mean queen unless they are passed down through her drones.

Doing a walk away split will result in queens raise from brood that was laid by the unwanted queen.

 Here's a youtube video of a guy requeening an aggressive hive. You'll have to let us know if your bees are as nasty as these. I've seen videos of Africanized honey bees that weren't as aggressive as these.
 This shows that the bees do remain extremely defensive even after the removal of the queen. Since you already have your queens, I would go through and kill the old queen and requeen that hive. Then it depends on how soon you want to do a split. You can queen the nuc, wait two weeks then check the hive for new eggs. By then, any eggs laid by the old queen will be capped, so you'll be looking for eggs and young larva.
 As soon as you have a couple frames with eggs and larva, you shouldn't have a problem doing a split with fresh stock. Good luck

kill the aggressive queen and put the second queen in that hive go back a couple of weeks later and do a walk away split.  sorry, i kind of thought that would have been obvious since he had two queens but i guess i was assuming he only has the one hive and the nuc.  

Requeening A Vicious Honeybee Hive
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rbinhood
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 07:10:40 PM »

One day that young man will learn to lay off of the OLD SPICE before he goes to the bee yard.   lau  I have found over time this type of bee will produce more honey than the less aggressive bees, and I have a couple of hives that make these bees look like school girls.
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 07:15:37 PM »

One day that young man will learn to lay off of the OLD SPICE before he goes to the bee yard.   lau  I have found over time this type of bee will produce more honey than the less aggressive bees, and I have a couple of hives that make these bees look like school girls.
I've heard the same thing from several sources. Mean, nasty bees are the best honey producers.
I think I would rather go with less honey than have a hive that wants to kill me every time I walk near it. My own personal opinion  Smiley
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 08:43:05 AM »

after splitting yesterday eve and a good inspection...we saw eggs capped brood larvae...and simply could not find the queen.  i went in there over the course of 6 hours at least 4 times.  i even had a fellow beek come over to see if he could find her.  no such luck.

so here is what i did.  i put one of the new bought queens in the nuc.  did a split of the big hive and put the queencage with queen in one with least amount of bees and we did a really good inspection of that portion of the hive.  after a few hours i looked back in to see how the bees were acting around the newly introduced cage.  they were feeding the caged bees nicely.  Ive seen this behavior b4 and Ive seen bees who didn't want the caged queen...hoping this one goes well...looked pretty good to me yesterday...rainy cloudy today i think I'm staying out of the hive today if i can

now as to the remaining deep hive the one i think the queen is in...should i wait a week or so and check to see if theres new eggs...larvae?  i still want to find her and do away with her

then i could possibly combine the two deeps??? ideas?  not trying to make lots of honey this year trying to make lots of bees
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 01:12:54 PM »

As you said, make sure to find the bad queen. Keep reducing the population until you aren't so overwhelmed by numbers. Then reconbine. Wait until all old brood is capped and the new queen has laid a fresh batch of eggs then make splits. Sawdust Maker is correct about the disposition change. I had a mean hive last year. Requeened and in no time they were nicer.

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Ray
Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 03:41:54 PM »

>Even after you requeen your hives it will take about six to eight weeks before you will see a dramatic change in the disposition of the bees.

In my experience it often takes only a few days.  Obviously that means it is not ALL genetics... but requeening still solves the problem.  It MIGHT take six weeks, if it's only genetic, but that has not been my experience.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm
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Joe D
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 08:26:13 PM »

I would not say this is the way to go, but I did.  When getting started I bought 3 hives that no one had messed with in a year or more.  They were aggressive, that spring they swarmed, I caught all the swarms, and they weren't aggressive anymore.            Since then one of the hives became queenless, I got a cordovan/Russian cross from a local breeder that said she would be nice.  She has been and that hive is loaded with bees and are very gentle.




Joe
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blanc
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2013, 09:15:05 PM »

I have one hive that has not been aggressive until I went in last week Went thru two top boxes and almost all the way thru the bottom box to the last two frames and all of a sudden they were on me like gravy on rice. Weather was pretty good and not sure what riled them up by they were in attack mode. If the next inspection is the same I will pinch the winch!  grin I have a couple hot hives but good honey producers so I deal with it but this was as bad as the video in this thread and I don't need to deal with bad attitudes like DAT!
Blanc
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schawee
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 09:59:51 PM »

some of my hives get pissy every now an then blanc.weather plays a lot with that on gentle hives.i had hives that will boil out just going in the bee yard or lightly bump the hive.thats the ones I don't like in the yard.
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blanc
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 10:02:09 AM »

some of my hives get pissy every now an then blanc.weather plays a lot with that on gentle hives.i had hives that will boil out just going in the bee yard or lightly bump the hive.thats the ones I don't like in the yard.
I started off with 6 hives with last years losses and now in my yard behind the house I have 13 and two more after a Friday removal of two hives. I can keep a better eye on them for feeding here and then move some to another yard by the spillway. That yard we have split up in diff spots to accommodate the gardens my buddy has over there so prolly move it there soon. Took a sting between the eye yesterday just getting close  Sad Reacted fast enough not to get any venom in and no swelling.  grin Thanks schawee
Blanc
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Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
tefer2
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2013, 10:35:02 AM »

If you keep bees long enough, everyone will end up with a few mean hives. They always seem to make a ton of honey and deal with pests well.
Last year, we had mean bees near the woods that were from a cutout we did.
One afternoon, I found tracks leading up to the pallets. I followed the tracks away from the hives until I found just one tennis shoe stuck in the mud. They didn't come back for it either!
They got a new queen after we pulled the honey off them.
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hardwood
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2013, 11:28:24 AM »

I love stories like that tefer! A few years back I had a yard waaay out in a remote area. I noticed four-wheeler tracks when I went to check them and found one of the strong hives was missing a top. When I looked in the hive I saw that two frames were missing from the super. I started following some footprints and got about 50yds before finding one flip flop then the other after a few more yards followed by one of the missing frames and then the other. Jerk got what he deserved!

Scott
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tefer2
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2013, 04:58:31 PM »

Scott, when we pulled into that yard they were always waiting for us. You didn't dare get out of the truck without protection on. I can't imagine some idiot fooling around with those girls. They got their tails tore up!  need help
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