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Author Topic: Where do you draw the line?  (Read 5599 times)
sterling
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 04:53:31 PM »

LOL, I never thought I would see the day that BjornBee would be called a leftist!  lau lau lau
It seems Bjorn is more concerned about his money then others true rights. He said there needs to be more Govt. control and that is a leftist thought. If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck it prolly is a duck.
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iddee
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 05:11:20 PM »

BJ says:
I am pro choice

iddee says: Can I choose to smoke?

BJ says:
NO, it's not good for you.

iddee says:
can I choose a large soda?

BJ says:
NO, it's not good for you.

iddee says:
Can I choose to own a gun?

BJ says:
NO, it's not safe for kids.

iddee says:
Can I choose an incandescent bulb?

BJ says:
NO, it's not good for the planet.

iddee says:
Can I choose low-cost coal?

BJ says:
NO, it's not good for the planet.

iddee says:
Can I choose to honor God?

BJ says:
NO, that's offensive.

iddee says:
So what can I choose?

BJ says:
AN ABORTION
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 05:39:37 PM »

My first instinct is to say serve anyone. But then I have to think if someone from the KKK, for example, wanted to do business. I believe I would refuse. Or someone from that really crazy church that pickets funerals. It is an interesting thing to consider, thogh.
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 06:35:03 PM »

       Just as I throw away every issue of Bee Culture Magazine I receive. I will not be signing up for another subscription. I  bought the Mag. to gain more knowledge as a beekeeper. I do not want to be lectured about "global Warming" by Ross Conrad or anyone else. So far ABJ stays away from doing this.
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Steel Tiger
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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2013, 06:55:39 PM »

Private business should be just that. A private business, without government interference. If the government can sue for not serving gays, whats to stop them from suing a restaurant for not having kosher foods on their menu?
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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2013, 07:35:15 PM »

Quote
  Just as I throw away every issue of Bee Culture Magazine I receive. I will not be signing up for another subscription.

took it for a year.  read one or two.  same reasons, different issues  grin

 
Quote
If the government can sue for not serving gays, whats to stop them from suing a restaurant for not having kosher foods on their menu?

that's the thing.  the marriage of business and government, however it happens, is what leads to crony capitalism.  one of the main ways is through regulation.  the more the government regulates, the more business crawls into bed with the government to mitigate the effects of the regulation.  other than a very few issues of safety and pollution, government and business should never meet...and even with those two things, the meeting should be rare and brief.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
carlfaba10t
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« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2013, 03:59:30 PM »

Now i know why i do not have as many people coming by my business as i used to have 5 yrs ago.And i am twice as happy about it! 
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Carl-I have done so much with so little for so long i can now do something with nothing!
Highlander
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 01:01:31 PM »

A business is a private enterprise and should be allowed to serve who they want and deny service to whom they want.  The government and courts are not the proper forum for these disputed and the court in this case has committed a crime by ruling in favor of the homosexual couple.  If someone does not agree with the businesses stance then they have the free right to not use that service, just as the business has the free right to not provide a service.   
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Cruachan!

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For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
From The Declaration of Arbroath 1320.
hjon71
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« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2013, 09:01:04 PM »

Perhaps the concept of Liberty isn't as dead as I thought. Impressed.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2013, 11:39:03 PM »

Perhaps Tribalism isn’t dead in this country after all. Sad Sad Sad  Any beekeepers remember the “melting pot” idea  huh 

Kingbee is the expert on Tribalism, maybe he can shed some light on the problems it causes.
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Sunnyboy2
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2013, 11:42:15 PM »

Has someone considered doing business with or refusing to do business with a person, group, association, ect. a form of speech.  Could I not refuse to sell rope to a lynch mob, refuse to sell alcohol to an alcoholic, refuse to sell paint to a group of taggers?  And refuse solely because I do not wish to offer any support to the cause the buyer represents.  Doing business should be for more than just making money, it should be for making our communities better places.  The debate will be when is refusing to do business, good business.
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tecumseh
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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 06:58:26 AM »

a snip...
Thank you for the replies so far. It reaffirms some of my thoughts.

tecumseh...
uh huh.... I am glad you are starting to see thru the fog of the rhetoric but I suspect others here will never be capable of this simple task. 
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
buzzbee
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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2013, 10:12:26 PM »

Care to throw Nambla into that list, or is that a horse of a different color?
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 04:56:39 PM »

LOL, I never thought I would see the day that BjornBee would be called a leftist!  lau lau lau

   LOL, I never thought I would see the day BlueBee would have the nerve to call himself a MODERATE!  lau lau lau
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greg755
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 10:04:41 PM »

A business should be able to sell or deny his product or service to anyone he/she chooses.  If you don't like that go start a business and sell to the customers he turns away...   I'm sure you will make a fortune...  Oh and you can hire all the unqualified people that we are forced to hire as well, that will really get you up and turning a profit quickly...   

Just doing my part to save the world one dumbass at a time...
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tecumseh
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2013, 07:31:31 AM »

a snip...
A business should be able to sell or deny his product or service to anyone he/she chooses.

tecumseh..
this is what Peter Drucker called 'creaming the market'.  the results of following this business strategy is quite simple and obvious.
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
kathyp
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2013, 10:11:56 AM »

Quote
this is what Peter Drucker called 'creaming the market'.  the results of following this business strategy is quite simple and obvious.

no, that's a marketing and startup strategy.  we are talking specifically about a matter of conscience, and broadly about rights.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Teena
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2013, 10:53:23 AM »

You who are declaring the business owner has a "right" to decide who to do business with sure pick and choose the parts of the constitution you want to use, and you probably pick and choose the parts of the bible you want to believe in also.

"...all men are created equal..." If a business owner, with a business license issued by their municipality is doing business with the community they are in, it should be against the law across the board to deliberately discriminate against any of its citizens!

I sell at my local farmers market, maybe I should put up a sign that says "No ignorant, bigots served at this table." That would certainly exclude most of you in this thread.
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Moots
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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 11:18:25 AM »

You who are declaring the business owner has a "right" to decide who to do business with sure pick and choose the parts of the constitution you want to use, and you probably pick and choose the parts of the bible you want to believe in also.

"...all men are created equal..." If a business owner, with a business license issued by their municipality is doing business with the community they are in, it should be against the law across the board to deliberately discriminate against any of its citizens!

I sell at my local farmers market, maybe I should put up a sign that says "No ignorant, bigots served at this table." That would certainly exclude most of you in this thread.

Hey Teena,
Just to keep it simple, maybe you would prefer for the all powerful all knowing government to just nationalize all businesses and not allow individuals to own a business at all.  God forbid that anyone dare to have the nerve to have an independent thought that goes against what you and the government think they ought to believe.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2013, 11:32:49 AM »

The Constitution was written to limit the powers of the federal governemnt. Not business. Which part of it shall we pick and choose?
Judicial activism has inserted itself into the mix, but the Constitution reserves power to the States and the people, except for those spelled out in the document.  There is a process to make changes to the Constitution, but it is not the legislature and Supreme court.  Refresh yourself.
"All men are created equal "came from the Declaration of Independence. There is nothing in the Constitution declaring equality,but there are protections for religion and the free expression there of.
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