Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 02, 2014, 05:41:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bee yard growth rate.  (Read 1173 times)
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« on: April 10, 2013, 06:22:47 AM »

I just want to know if this is normal. Last year i started with 2 nucs and a package. By the end of the year I had 6 colonies. Spring of this year I have 15 colonies all from splits and swarms.
Is this normal growth?  I'm not complaining I only want to know because I'm having problems keeping up from an equipment stand point. If this is what I can expect in the future I really have to redouble my equipment production.
Logged

Later,
Ray
Bush_84
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342

Location: Brainerd, MN


« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 08:07:07 AM »

I wish I had your problem!  Maybe you should sell some nucs if you don't wish to have as many hives.
Logged

Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1504

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 08:28:22 AM »

ray
get to the total you want then split into nucs around swarm season to either sell or have queens in reserve and build enough supers to stack all the hives really tall and just maintain what you've got.  i hate this expression but "it's a good problem to have".
 
rob
Logged
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 09:45:59 AM »

Please don't get me wrong. This is not a complaint.  I was just wanting to know if this is normal. I thought that I had enough equipment built to be able to keep up with normal growth. If this is what I can expect in a good year of beekeeping I have to spend more time in the winter building equipment.
Logged

Later,
Ray
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 09:58:40 AM »

Normal growth.  Bee yard. 
The two don't go together. Growth depends on your efforts and actions. 
The ability to grow by leaps and bounds is there but it's how you manage what you have.
Growth can stop or start when you want it.
Bailey.
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 10:09:46 AM »

I just want to know if this is normal. Last year i started with 2 nucs and a package. By the end of the year I had 6 colonies. Spring of this year I have 15 colonies all from splits and swarms.
Is this normal growth?  I'm not complaining I only want to know because I'm having problems keeping up from an equipment stand point. If this is what I can expect in the future I really have to redouble my equipment production.

It is a huge speed compared to your experience.

It is better that you sell part of them and enjoy what you have done now.

To keep 15 hives you need  to each hive 5 boxes, 50 frames with foundations/combs  =  perhaps 70 boxes and 700 frames...

70 kg foundations

If you get honey.............'


.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4195

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 10:44:42 AM »

I would say you’re building a little slow there Ray. huh  Just kidding  grin  

When the bees come through winter in good shape they can really take off in the spring.  Last winter was very mild up here.  I stopped counting swam captures last spring after 25.  I ran out of equipment and ended up giving away some really nice swarms.  

It’s a blessing to have more than you need as you never know what the weather will be in the summer.  Another hot summer with drought conditions is hard on the bees.
Logged
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1504

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 11:47:15 AM »

Normal growth.  Bee yard. 
The two don't go together. Growth depends on your efforts and actions. 
The ability to grow by leaps and bounds is there but it's how you manage what you have.
Growth can stop or start when you want it.
Bailey.
it also depends on the weather.  bailey is down on the coast where they have an almost endless summer and probably get a lot more consistent rainfall than a lot of us.  this spring has been pretty crappy here so far.  two or three good days where the bees work then a week long cold snap and three days of rain.  we've got lows in the 40's forecast again this week but it was close to 90 yesterday.
if you have the equipment i can't see where managing 15 hives in one yard is any different than managing 5.  keep in mind that you may be maxing out the number of colonies that can be sustained in that spot, though.  then again, it may support 40. 
i'd say finski is pretty close with the number of supers.  i'd want two deeps and at least 4 mediums ready for each colony at any time.  do you have the storage space to handle that?   
Logged
danno
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2240


Location: Ludington, Michigan


« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 12:17:34 PM »

I would say you’re building a little slow there Ray. huh  Just kidding  grin  

When the bees come through winter in good shape they can really take off in the spring.  Last winter was very mild up here.  I stopped counting swam captures last spring after 25.  I ran out of equipment and ended up giving away some really nice swarms.  

It’s a blessing to have more than you need as you never know what the weather will be in the summer.  Another hot summer with drought conditions is hard on the bees.

It just keeps getting better
Logged
L Daxon
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 669


Location: Oklahoma City


« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 12:21:27 PM »

What are your goals?  Do you want a lot of hives? A lot of honey harvest? Did you have any losses?  Are you wanting to expand to other locations? It sounds like you have produced a lot of hives in just your first year, perhaps at the expense of honey production?Huh You can stop your growth anytime you choose.

Finski is right.  The equipment you will need is really simple math.  How many hives you want xs your brood chambers and honey supers.  And the number of supers you need/want per have could vary depending on if you leave your honey supers on and harvest all at once, or if you harvest more than once a season, taking supers off as they are filled so you can harvest and then put them back on for a re-fill during a single season.

ld
Logged

linda d
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 12:26:32 PM »

.
You may split normal hive to 10 nucs. What then?

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 12:44:57 PM »

if you have the equipment i can't see where managing 15 hives in one yard is any different than managing 5.  keep in mind that you may be maxing out the number of colonies that can be sustained in that spot, though.  then again, it may support 40. 
i'd say finski is pretty close with the number of supers.  i'd want two deeps and at least 4 mediums ready for each colony at any time.  do you have the storage space to handle that?   

Well I bought 500 frames and 50lbs of foundation and more than likely have another 100 or so frames and 25lbs of foundation left over from last year. As far as boxes I have already got 30 mediums assembled. I plan to use mediums only so I guess I need 7 per colony that would put me at 105 total. I already moved 10 of the colony's to three different locations about 30miles apart. The distance was determined by finding land owners willing to let me place bees on their property. Plus the company I work for may let me keep a bee yard on the land holdings that must be kept as a wildlife reserve.
I was planning to raise queens for fall splits in my back yard. I have a couple of Russian queens being delivered next week.
What I hear you guys saying is It can be done if I'm willing to work. The thing is I just didn't expect this to happen so quickly. Looks like I JUST GOTTA KNUCKLE DOWN AND GET HER DONE.
If this is what I can expect I may be able to end up the year with 30 to 40 colonies. Well on my way to the 200 point goal in 5 years. Hopefully they could produce some income this year. Last year I dropped about 7g in start-up costs. I'm 57 and want to be commercial when I retire.
Logged

Later,
Ray
danno
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2240


Location: Ludington, Michigan


« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 01:34:05 PM »

Could always use more cash but my biggest hurdle has been getting comb drawn.    I buy boxes by the pallet of 50 and frames and foundation by the 100s and still run short yearly.  I do like it when mid summer rolls in and all the stacks of hive bodies and supers are in the fields and not stacked in the honey house   
Logged
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1504

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 01:36:38 PM »

multiple yards starts getting a little trickier.  you have to plan on making two trips to one yard to handle the surprises that pop up.  i'd say time and storage are the two things you need to be managing right now.  
200 hives probably means a minimum of 5 yards but more likely closer to 10.  that can add up to a lot of driving.  
i had forgotten you were trying to build up.  i haven't had a single swarm or cut out call so far this year and i only had a couple last year.  i have had years where i have been i the teens before.  
it sounds like you had a good year last year but i wouldn't count on every year being like that.   sooner or later you'll almost certainly have years where you back up so be prepared for that too.
 
Logged
Steel Tiger
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 530

Location: Southern New Hampshire


« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 01:39:28 PM »

Last year I dropped about 7g in start-up costs. I'm 57 and want to be commercial when I retire.
7g to start three hives? If you're handy with tools, maybe you could make make your own hives and save quite a bit of money. I'm planning on building medium depth long hives. I'm going to start with 3 and see how they winter next year.
 It's good to have a plan and I have one myself if I'm successful this year.
 
Logged
bailey
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 874


Location: RACELAND LA


« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 03:35:43 PM »

Ray are you coming to buds?   If so you will learn a lot.  And if so ask me about expansion when we meet
Bailey
Logged

most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »

Ray are you coming to buds?   If so you will learn a lot.  And if so ask me about expansion when we meet
Bailey
Bailey I would really like to be there but the job is getting in the way. We have a shutdown starting May 1st and I have to prep for it. Hope to make it next year.  I'll make sure to put in the vacation request in time. Would like to meet you guys you've
all been a lot of help.
Last year I dropped about 7g in start-up costs. I'm 57 and want to be commercial when I retire.
7g to start three hives? If you're handy with tools, maybe you could make make your own hives and save quite a bit of money. I'm planning on building medium depth long hives. I'm going to start with 3 and see how they winter next year.
 It's good to have a plan and I have one myself if I'm successful this year.
 
Yeah well that includes some big ticket items like a 20fr extractor. I made purchases for where I want to be not where I am. I also bought enough wood from Rossmans to support 6 full colonies, 2 deeps and 4 mediums for each. Spending money is easy. Keeping the bees alive is the hard part. I caught he## finding 6 mesh screen for the bottom oil traps I made. It seemed like I always needed something else. To put it flatly whatever i needed I got. I looked at it like an investment.
Logged

Later,
Ray
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1504

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2013, 08:38:30 AM »

i hope ou filed schedule f on your taxes.  you could have deducted all of that last year.  keep in mind that the boys at the irs will expect you to turn a profit in about 5 years, though.
Logged
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2013, 09:11:04 AM »

i hope ou filed schedule f on your taxes.  you could have deducted all of that last year.  keep in mind that the boys at the irs will expect you to turn a profit in about 5 years, though.

nope I sure didn't, I don't care for the IRS very much. It may sound crazy but the less they know about what I'm doing the better of I feel.
Logged

Later,
Ray
Mbeck
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49

Location: Weeki Wachee Florida


« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2013, 05:55:02 PM »


Growth can stop or start when you want it.
Bailey.

I respectfully submit that the stopping growth  is a little easier that starting it when you want it.
Logged
greg zechman
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4

Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 10:56:51 AM »

RAY ..THAT SOUNDS GREAT ABOUT THE EXPANSION.....IT SOUNDS LIKE THE PLAN HAS GONE INTO GEAR....GREG
Logged
rubeehaven2
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 56

Location: NY


« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2013, 08:19:04 AM »

That is some fast growing!  Now you have caused me to re-think splitting my hives.  I started with two packages last year and both survived their first winter, and look strong going into the spring.  Though, spring hasn't exactly sprung here in NY yet!

But, I was told if I want honey this year, NOT to split.  If I split the hives, the hives will essentially be building stores to survive the next winter.  So, they probably won't have any surplus honey.  This seems to make sense, but the hives are starting out much stronger and much earlier than they did last year as packages.  (And, they had more than enough stores for the winter)  So, now I am thinking they should be able to do both, be split AND be able to harvest honey.


Thanks, Rich
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2013, 08:32:45 AM »



But, I was told if I want honey this year, NOT to split.  If I split the hives, the hives will essentially be building stores to survive the next winter.  So, they probably won't have any surplus honey.  This seems to make sense, but the hives are starting out much stronger and much earlier than they did last year as packages.  (And, they had more than enough stores for the winter)  So, now I am thinking they should be able to do both, be split AND be able to harvest honey.


I have nursed bees 50 years, and I can say that no one can learn beekeeping so fast that next year you are able to evaluate what is strong, and what is not.

Let the two hives grow to full size that you can learn what normal hive does during one year. When you have learned that, you are able to foresee, what bees are going to do next. They are wild animals and they do what ever.

Your duty as beekeeper is to try lead them to some direction, but inside the limits of their natural instincts.

Package hive is like a small swarm. It does not teach much.

In normal hive nursing you must learn how

- the colony builds up in spring
- how long it takes to be ready to forage
- how handle swarming time
- how expand the hive and make frames and foundations
- how handle honey yield
- how prepare them to wintering
- how handle mites and diseases
- how to sell honey and how to handle yield for selling

You may be greedy and then you loose everything.
It happens even in better families.

It would be good if you get an experienced beekeeper friend nearby. You save a lot with that friendship.


If you have several hives, it teaches more because hives do not react  same way


« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 10:03:40 AM by Finski » Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
tefer2
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2173

Location: Kalamazoo,MI


« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2013, 08:38:21 AM »

That's a great post Finski!   goodpost
Logged
RHBee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1092


Location: Pinopolis, SC

That's my pooch.


« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2013, 12:09:37 PM »

Bravo Finski, That was well put. You are right all around. I am hard pushed to keep up with this growth in numbers. I seriously considered your advice about selling or even giving away a few colonies just so I  wouldn't neglect to properly care for these wonderful creatures. I don't want anyone to misunderstand when I first posted this thread I was in the "Holy Crap" mode.
That day there were 5 swarms in my back yard of those I was able to only catch 3. I was in a mad scramble to distribute the resources that I had on hand to house the increase. If you guys reread that post in light of what I've just told you it is almost comical. To add to the mayhem, one of my neighbors walked over, through a cloud of bees, and got stung twice.  Once on the arm and once under his right eye. Lucky for me he was a really good sport and pretty tough. I think he's 75 yrs old he said something about that he probably shouldn't have done that.
Now that everyone has had a good chuckle. I have come to grips with what I have to do. My friends this means work and time management. I finish my last graveyard shift tonight and do my first inspections in 4 different locations in a 30 mile loop. I couldn't keep all those bees in my backyard there were just to many. It truly is a labor of love but it's still labor. Some of these colonies are pretty small just like a 3lb package so if I'm gonna build them up their going to need extra care. I still have 5 hives in the back yard. Two strong and the three weakest I have two Russian queens coming from Charley Harper next week so this should be fun.
 Guys I found that making splits is just as easy as everyone says. Wait until you have mature drones then split your hives in half giving both halves resources to raise a queen. They do the rest. If you keep them in the same yard you have to do a couple more manipulations to equal out population. Temperature and weather can really mess you up so make sure to look ahead as much as possible and wait until things are kinda stable. I hope I didn't say anything to incredibly stupid this is just my second year you know.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
Logged

Later,
Ray
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.595 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page August 29, 2014, 05:10:12 PM
anything