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Author Topic: Dead larva and pupa at entrance  (Read 701 times)
Lectro88
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« on: April 04, 2013, 10:12:57 PM »

Hello All.
Brought my first hive home night before last that was given to me.
Landowner said her tennant had them 4-5yrs never touched them. It was just a brood box, no supers. But strong and almst honey bound.
Yesterday, with the help of my mentor who has been in bee keeping over 30 years, we changed the brood box that had seen its better days, put a screen base board down, added two supers. About 2hrs after working them I notice bees stammering about outside on the ground all around the hive. at the entrance I notice larvae, pupa and a few dead drones. Watching for a while I see 2 worker bees drag a drone pupa out and fly off with it.
This morning the bees were evil mean. They flew out like yellow jackets 1 even hit me on the lip, she didn't sting but I think she meant to. The screen inside was covered with larvae. Almost 1/4 cup outside entrance.
Yesterday I worked in short sleeves, black pants and cologne breaking all rules. not 1 sting.
He even commented he couldn't remember a more gentle hive.
I wonder if the stammering bees were killed by their own hive. I guess almost 1000 combined.
Any ideas.
Thank you in advance.
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10framer
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 10:42:36 PM »

did the landowner mention trying to kill them before deciding to give them away? 
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 10:51:14 PM »

how is your weather today? if you changed them into a new box. was there alot of cutting to get the frames out? where they grouped together?  They may be cleaning house from all the cutting and then with the weather change the colder it gets the meaner they get. check them later this weekend when it warms. their personality may be better.


John
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Lectro88
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 11:25:32 PM »

No attempt to kill by landowner.

Weather here snapped off cold and rainy.
I first encountered these bees in cold weather, put my hand on landing 2 bees crawled on my bare hand 2-3 min. very calm.
And I have heard expect changes from day to day. Today was a CHANGE. No short sleves today. break out my old steel knight suit.

My help has 13 hives and offered he estimated my hive was about 40,000 strong with 10 cobbled frames.
We removed 1 frame that was mostly honey and left outside for them to clean up.
And we did not destroy near this much carnage.
I might add the aggressive bees are smaller than I remeber noticing yesterday, young bees I am thinking.(new blood)
And also these girls have had a rough 2days. I'd be mad too.
Moved at night, woke up no food around as before, house rearranged..
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10framer
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 12:43:12 AM »

sounds like chilled brood.  the attitude is probably a combination of being moved and the change in the weather.
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RHBee
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 08:35:19 AM »

sounds like chilled brood.  the attitude is probably a combination of being moved and the change in the weather.
I agree with 10framer. I have one colony doing the same thing after this last cold snap.
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Later,
Ray
Lectro88
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 09:35:23 AM »

Thank You for your replies.
Now lets see if culprit can be pinpointed.
Was this from me opening hive,? it was in 70's and we spent maybe 10min in hive.
Or was it the 2 small supers we added that the bees couldn't maintain temp. with the added open space.
I would offer the screen bottom base, but the mite count grid filler is in place.
Or was this going to happen regardless with the last two nights maybe dropping in the high 30's ?
I feel that had I moved them and left them alone all would have been fine. But the urgency to give them some space was imediate. And as warm as its been fear of swarming from overcrowding.
Before I moved this hive maybe 2 weeks ago, I spent a few minutes around obsreving traffic in and out.
It was 50 degrees that day and I could feel the heat at the entrance. The bees were bringing in pollen that day and very active considering I was cold.

Here is another question.
This hive has SHB. will their larvae kill the bee larvae,? could this be some of what I'm seeing?
Sorry for all the questions.
I am hungy for knowledge and want the best for them so that means me doing the right things.
Thank you all again. 

 
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10framer
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 10:13:37 AM »

opening the top for a few minutes wouldn't do it but adding supers may very well have moved the cluster above the brood chamber. did the supers have comb or foundation?
when you say it has small hive beetles how many do you mean?  10 to 12 or 200?  
honestly, it sounds like you tried to push the bees a little too much a little too early to me. who knew we'd another cool snap?  
i made some splits a week ago thinking the cold was behind us but they all seem to be ok. but i tried to start an early queen nursery three weeks ago and lost it (well, had to merge it back into the original hive).
it happens.
two supers this early seems a little ambitious.  but if you're close to the coast things may be moving a little faster than where i'm located.
if they were backfilling i would more likely have added another brood chamber below the existing one instead of supering above it.    
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Lectro88
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 02:21:29 PM »

I crushed 5-7 beetles that were in the old brood box. I didn't see any beetles on the frames as they were completly covered in bees.

I wanted to add brood chamber didn't have 1. So my mentor sent back a small super for them, gave me an excluder and another small super.
His thinking was as strong as they were in there they needed the room. He also gave me drawn comb for both. 9 frames each.

I am following his lead in all this, but I don't want to call him constantly if I can get good info.
And on here I know this is good info.. 
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bailey
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 07:19:09 PM »

Did the bridge comb on the bottoms of the frames have drone pupae in them?
Breaking boxes apart will cause some of what you saw if they were full of bridge comb.
Add the cold snap and it would be my guess a combination of both factors.
They should overcome the change if you have warming temps.
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
Lectro88
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 09:32:32 PM »

well I'm not sure I can honestly answer your question, as I am still learning alot and will be for awhile.(sorry) in other words, I don't know.
I can tell you the 10 frames were packed and waxed together tight. but there were so many bees I really don't know what I saw.
(talk about feeling dumb)I do right about now.

But they are still po.ed. bad.!
I had two different times today a single bee attacked me and wouldn't stop. pursued me 40-50' I walk retreated, regretfully I had to kill the first 1 she just would not stop pinging into me.     
I did not want to and felt bad doing it..

today it was about 60-65 degrees they were in a cloud around the hive most of the day. It rained yesterday.
this is the 3rd day at their new location.
saw a few bringing in polon but more that didn't.
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Lectro88
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 10:05:01 PM »

You know, this could be I guess, I ask? a wild hive.
As I said early on. They were really gentle.
No one has worked these bees for 4-5 years.

I need to post pic. The frames had tie wraps in 3-4 places on each frame.
Also at the top of the frames they had 3 clam hair clips. is this describing a cut out.
Did someone catch and maybe relocate a wild hive.
As I'm gathering info about this hive, the orignal owner was not from around here. or this country.     
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BMAC
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 10:32:57 PM »

It was sleeting yesterday in statesboro when i passed thru.  I think u are definitely seeing chilled brood as a result of disturbing them into the new box.  Next time wait until you are on the start of a honeyflow before u move them to a new box.  That old one would have lasted for a couple more weeks
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