Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 21, 2014, 08:21:44 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(1)  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Dead Hive Honey Question  (Read 545 times)
antaro
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


Location: Portland, OR


« on: April 01, 2013, 01:34:01 AM »

I lost a hive over the winter and still have one going strong.
My original plan was to just let my existing hive rob out the dead hive (which still has tons of capped honey). However, the past two days I opened up the dead hive to let my bees start the process, and no bees will go into the hive (despite it being literally two feet away).

Any idea? Am I missing something? It was sunny, warm, with lots of bees flying. Do they know the hive contains death and stayed away?

If so, what should I do with all the honey & frames from the dead hive? They are gradually molding over and the ants are starting to have a field day.

Thanks!
Logged
Stromnessbees
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 48

Location: Scotland


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 07:34:18 AM »

The fact that your other bees are not interested in the honey is typical for CCD, Colony Collapse Disorder, which is caused by neonicotinoid pesticides.

As that honey might still contain some of the poison I would not try to feed it to your other hive.

It would be good if you could identify, where the bees gathered the contaminated honey or pollen, this would have happened up to half a year ago.
Fields of oiseed rape, or maize (corn) are usually treated with these systemic pesticides, but you would not notice much at the hive at time they are flowering. But then the colony usually dwindles away to nothing in winter.

Other common sources of neonics are golf courses or parks, where the turf gets treated against grubs, and nearby flowers and trees pick up the toxin and secrete it with nectar and pollen.

I hope your other hive is ok, but unless these chemicals get banned there's little hope of keeping our bee populations alive in future.
Logged
JackM
House Bee
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 497


Location: Washougal, WA


« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 08:26:27 AM »

The fact that your other bees are not interested in the honey is typical for CCD, Colony Collapse Disorder, which is caused by neonicotinoid pesticides.

As that honey might still contain some of the poison I would not try to feed it to your other hive.

It would be good if you could identify, where the bees gathered the contaminated honey or pollen, this would have happened up to half a year ago.
Fields of oiseed rape, or maize (corn) are usually treated with these systemic pesticides, but you would not notice much at the hive at time they are flowering. But then the colony usually dwindles away to nothing in winter.

Other common sources of neonics are golf courses or parks, where the turf gets treated against grubs, and nearby flowers and trees pick up the toxin and secrete it with nectar and pollen.

I hope your other hive is ok, but unless these chemicals get banned there's little hope of keeping our bee populations alive in future.
Sir,
You may well be right, the neocotoniods are a serious issue, but to blankly state as you did that this person's issue is CCD is, frankly, conjecture and a pure guess on your part.

For example I lost a hive this winter too, lots of honey left, the other hive did not touch it in the hive.  But once I harvested the honey and set out the frames for the bees to clean, they spruced them all up and that hive is going strong and not having any problems with the spring buildup.....

So....  I hope you see my point, I don't disagree about the herbicide(s) issues, in fact, I agree completely.  But at this point in time there is not enough printed material out there to completely prove the theory that the neocotonoids are the cause of his loss of hive(s)
Logged

“I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast” – Ronald Reagan
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1039


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 12:04:40 PM »

Antaro, if there's good nectar flow elsewhere bee's will ignore honey like the plague.  If the original hive is strong you can simply put the boxes on top and they'll clean and defend it like it's their own.  A few other options are you can do a split and either buy a second queen or do a walk away split, or buy a package and put it in there as it's new home.  The CCD claim is dubious at best.

JackM you beat me to the punch.  To claim CCD is indeed conjecture at the very least but it's more of a pattern.  You'll find Stromnessbees hops on here from across the pond to stir the pot with various unproven theories presented as facts.  Undoubtedly, some links will now follow from biased groups with unreplicated "scientific" results that support whatever claim has been made.  The sky is falling claim before this one was "Chemtrails."
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
sawdstmakr
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1993


Location: Jacksonville FL


« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 12:14:14 PM »

If there is a good flow on, the bees, quite often will not go after the honey. I cleaned out an old tool box full of honey and bees, right in my apiary and none of the other bees could care less. If I had waited another 3 weeks it would have been a major free for all.
It could be perfectly good. Hard to tell.
Jim
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6348


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 12:44:50 PM »

Antaro,

You may have hit the jackpot and didn't even know it.  Let's assume Strom is correct. First of all you had two hives that foraged the same areas and one dies from CCD caused my neonicotinoid.  The other is still growing strong.  So one can only deduce that the alive hive is not only smart enough not to collect neonicotinoid laced nectar,  but equally as smart not to rob neonicotinoid honey.   You, my friend, have a hive of neonicotinoid resistant bees.   I would immediately start rearing queens from this hive and selling them at a premium.  grin

note:  I am no way in favor of chemical use, but I am equally opposed to 'sky is falling' syndrome.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


10framer
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1259

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 01:00:12 PM »

Antaro, if there's good nectar flow elsewhere bee's will ignore honey like the plague.  If the original hive is strong you can simply put the boxes on top and they'll clean and defend it like it's their own.  A few other options are you can do a split and either buy a second queen or do a walk away split, or buy a package and put it in there as it's new home.  The CCD claim is dubious at best.

JackM you beat me to the punch.  To claim CCD is indeed conjecture at the very least but it's more of a pattern.  You'll find Stromnessbees hops on here from across the pond to stir the pot with various unproven theories presented as facts.  Undoubtedly, some links will now follow from biased groups with unreplicated "scientific" results that support whatever claim has been made.  The sky is falling claim before this one was "Chemtrails."

be careful singling people out on here.   i was once told that i could be banned if i "specifically" called out another pot stirrer on here. i understand the rule and agree with it but some people skate the edge frequently.
anyway, kathyp posted a couple of links on another thread over the weekend that point out that what we call ccd today has been happening for centuries.  to make the statement that pesticide x is the cause of ccd with no studies that prove that to be absolute on a public forum could probably earn you a lawsuit from one of those big chemical companies. 
Logged
splitrock
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 166

Location: Eastern South Dakota


« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 08:37:21 PM »

"to make the statement that pesticide x is the cause of ccd with no studies that prove that to be absolute on a public forum could probably earn you a lawsuit from one of those big chemical companies."

That's why one should phrase comments like that as only a personal opinion, imho.
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5222


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 08:43:39 PM »

Well said Robo. Neonics are not the blanket cause of all colony demise.
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5222


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 08:47:38 PM »

Perhaps you could freexe some of the frames and feed back during a dearth?

You also mentioned ants. Is there any chance the colony  was weak and the ants perhaps created a situation for the bees to abscond?   Just a thought.
Logged
antaro
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


Location: Portland, OR


« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »

Really appreciate all the info and opinions.
Especially the hilarious ones. The internet is of no fun to me without sarcasm!

Sounds like the best options are to either throw the boxes on top of the other hive or to create a split.
I am hesitant to split anything right now as we are just coming out of winter and I don't want to mess with the other hives population. However, if I wait too long and do nothing with the frames, I worry that ants will take over the hive. The frames continue to mold as I type and don't know how far gone I should let them get. On the same note, I don't have freezer space to store them.

As for putting the boxes on top, that would create a massive hive of deeps. Not my idea of fun lifting!

Hmm. Complications!
Logged
sawdstmakr
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1993


Location: Jacksonville FL


« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 04:50:47 AM »

What are you talking about as far as mold? Is that in the brood area or is it in the capped honey? Is the hive slimed from SHB?
Jim
Logged
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 613

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 07:26:12 AM »


I am hesitant to split anything right now as we are just coming out of winter and I don't want to mess with the other hives population. However, if I wait too long and do nothing with the frames, I worry that ants will take over the hive. The frames continue to mold as I type and don't know how far gone I should let them get.
As for putting the boxes on top, that would create a massive hive of deeps. Not my idea of fun lifting!

Hmm. Complications!

Do yourself a favor and please check out the deadout thoroughly for any signs of AFB.  Its probably not the issue, but you would be prudent to rule it out.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.363 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page April 15, 2014, 09:31:56 PM