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Author Topic: Here is my situation..next steps?  (Read 959 times)

Offline Orlando

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Here is my situation..next steps?
« on: March 18, 2013, 10:57:54 PM »
Hello,

I am now convinced to start nucs which I will overwinter for all of the noted reasons.

I have a small apiary, 5 hives. I really only want to be able to better sustain what I have through nuc raising. (i.e. not looking to sell anything yet).

My confusion is coming from how I approach the development of the nucs for a smaller operation. Many of the the queen rearing methods seem geared towards making a dozen or more queen cells, etc. I am just trying to maybe setup 1 nuc for each hive I have, and of course trying to duplicate desirable traits. So in other words, how do I best go about setting up at max 5 nucs without going overboard like every other hobby I've ever started?

Offline bailey

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 11:10:29 PM »
First thing.
Look up dcoats nuc plans. 
Make 5 with bottoms and 5 without bottoms. The bottomless ones are nuc supers.
Take the supers and store for later.

Next take 2 or 3 frames of brood with eggs from each hive and put them into the the nucs.
Fill the rest of nuc with frames.  Shake in some nurse bees being careful you don't shake queen into nuc.

Cover and seal them up.   Carry them about 3 miles away to make the queen. If you don't most of the bees will just go home and your nuc fails.

Go back 14 days after this and look for your queen.  She should be there. 
Leave the nuc there till you see eggs and larve in them. 

Then re seal them.  Bring your queen right nuc home  and when they fill it add the nuc supers that you stored.
Easiest way to do what your wanting.  If there is no queen when you check in 14 days then add another frame of eggs but it shouldn't be needed.

Simplest answer I know.
most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.

Offline Moots

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2013, 11:19:51 PM »
First thing.
Look up dcoats nuc plans. 
Make 5 with bottoms and 5 without bottoms. The bottomless ones are nuc supers.
Take the supers and store for later.

Next take 2 or 3 frames of brood with eggs from each hive and put them into the the nucs.
Fill the rest of nuc with frames.  Shake in some nurse bees being careful you don't shake queen into nuc.

Cover and seal them up.   Carry them about 3 miles away to make the queen. If you don't most of the bees will just go home and your nuc fails.

Go back 14 days after this and look for your queen.  She should be there. 
Leave the nuc there till you see eggs and larve in them. 

Then re seal them.  Bring your queen right nuc home  and when they fill it add the nuc supers that you stored.
Easiest way to do what your wanting.  If there is no queen when you check in 14 days then add another frame of eggs but it shouldn't be needed.

Simplest answer I know.

Bailey,
Two questions...

First, Why would one build and use a Nuc Super as opposed to just moving the Nuc into a regular hive box when the space is needed?

Second, Any idea if instead of taking them 3 miles away, One could take them about a quarter mile away and use something over the entrance, like a branch or something to que them to reorient when they exit the Nuc for the first time?


"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline Vance G

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2013, 11:41:00 PM »
mdasplitter.com  has a blueprint for you.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 12:08:50 AM »
First thing.
Look up dcoats nuc plans. 
Make 5 with bottoms and 5 without bottoms. The bottomless ones are nuc supers.
Take the supers and store for later.

Next take 2 or 3 frames of brood with eggs from each hive and put them into the the nucs.
Fill the rest of nuc with frames.  Shake in some nurse bees being careful you don't shake queen into nuc.

Cover and seal them up.   Carry them about 3 miles away to make the queen. If you don't most of the bees will just go home and your nuc fails.



Go back 14 days after this and look for your queen.  She should be there. 
Leave the nuc there till you see eggs and larve in them. 

Then re seal them.  Bring your queen right nuc home  and when they fill it add the nuc supers that you stored.
Easiest way to do what your wanting.  If there is no queen when you check in 14 days then add another frame of eggs but it shouldn't be needed.

Simplest answer I know.

Bailey,
Two questions...

First, Why would one build and use a Nuc Super as opposed to just moving the Nuc into a regular hive box when the space is needed?

Second, Any idea if instead of taking them 3 miles away, One could take them about a quarter mile away and use something over the entrance, like a branch or something to que them to reorient when they exit the Nuc for the first time?

Moots,
The branch would help if you moved the hive. When the field bees fly out to collect food, if they come across an area they are familiar with, they swill return to the original hive.
If you need to keep them in the same basic area, add lots of bees from brood frames. Nurse bees swill not know the location of the old hives.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline bailey

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 12:35:25 AM »
Moot.  
Reason for nuc supers is to winter them over. He said he wants 5 hives and 5 nucs.  
Hard to pack enough food into 5 frames. Not enough room for the bees and honey.
If you super the nuc and let them fill it in the fall then they will overwinter without feeding.

Plus a double nuc just looks pretty cool.  8-)

The 3 mile thing isn't a hard fast rule but it makes it go easier.  It's depressing to check your nucs to find them mostly empty cause the foragers went home.
3 miles prevents this.   I won't make nucs and leave them in the same yard anymore.   Too many  failures that way.

Bailey.
most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 09:49:55 AM »
The main criteria to get a well fed queen is a hive that is overflowing with bees feeding the queen cells and timing it when there are resources (pollen and nectar).  The main criteria to get a well mated queen is the time of year she mates.  So if you make sure they are strong and there are a lot of drones flying you'll usually get a good queen.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline Orlando

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 10:18:57 AM »
Is there any way around the 3 mile nuc removal? I was trying to do everything close to home.

@ Michael: in your link it talks about making them queenless. Would this be pinching the queen or removing to another location. If another location then where and how far away?

re: setting up mating nucs - it says use two frames, 1 brood, 1 honey. How many bees are we putting in with those frames?

How far away do these nucs need to be from original hive?

P.S. Any harm to original hive by removing queen. And do you re-introduce that same queen to the hive when everything is said and done?

Thanks ...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:32:09 AM by Orlando »

Offline PLAN-B

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 11:14:56 AM »
Seems pretty str8 forward bailey... Liked the explanation...  :goodpost: especially for a newbie like myself... Moots, next year if you decide to do this we can meet in the middle of eachothers house and swap nucs for 14 days and then swap back...lol Sry didnt mean to hijack thread
Marshall

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 12:40:07 PM »
>Is there any way around the 3 mile nuc removal? I was trying to do everything close to home.

Yes.  I just put an extra shake of bees in the nuc and put them next door.

>@ Michael: in your link it talks about making them queenless. Would this be pinching the queen or removing to another location.

I hardly ever pinch a queen, especially if the object is to get more queens.  I would put the frame of brood that has the queen on it with a frame of honey in a nuc box.

>If another location then where and how far away?

I have never made a nuc or a split and taken it anywhere else.

>re: setting up mating nucs - it says use two frames, 1 brood, 1 honey. How many bees are we putting in with those frames?

All of them.  Plus an extra shake from another frame of brood.

>How far away do these nucs need to be from original hive?

Next door.

>P.S. Any harm to original hive by removing queen.

Using a queenless starter finisher, sets that hive back a lot actually.

> And do you re-introduce that same queen to the hive when everything is said and done?

Sometimes.  Often, the first batch of queens, I break that hive up to make the mating nucs.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline Orlando

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Re: Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 03:27:56 PM »
@MB So the original hive effectively gets "sacrificed" for the nuc makeup...This would mean that the one hive could become multiple nucs. How many nucs do you average from the one hive?

..thanks...BTW..enjoyed your podcast interview on the organic beekeper.

Thanks for the replies to all ... love the dcoates link!!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 03:40:59 PM by Orlando »

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Here is my situation..next steps?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 03:56:57 PM »
>So the original hive effectively gets "sacrificed" for the nuc makeup...This would mean that the one hive could become multiple nucs.

You don't have to, but that's what I often end up doing for the first couple of rounds of queens as I need more mating nucs at that time.  Later when I have some nucs, I don't do this anymore.  It just seems to work well.  The bees are with a cell they were caring for and they tend to accept them better.

> How many nucs do you average from the one hive?

That depends on the size of the hive, but I get a nuc for every frame of brood when it's all said and done, if I need them all.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen