Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 01, 2014, 11:43:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New Plan  (Read 3895 times)
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 02:51:06 PM »

.
Bush, have you opportunity to catch swarms? They would support your tinys.

That wintering..

Winter cluster will be same size as brood are before when hive stops brood rearing.

If hive has 8 frames brood, it will need one box for winter. Then you feed them full 20 kg sugar and they will winter.  if...they are not southern stock which do not understand what means Minnesota winter.

When you take care of wintering, you need not buy bees any more.

When you have packages, do not wait that you make nucs. It makes no sense.
You have enough to do that you get big hives for winter and then you have big hives in spring.

.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Bush_84
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342

Location: Brainerd, MN


« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 11:03:37 PM »

In all my life I have never seen or heard of a swarm in Minnesota.  Any swarm would come from any other beek that might live close.  I will set out swarm traps again.  This time with old brood comb.  Maybe I will get lucky and maybe I will catch my own swarms if my hives swarm again. 

I don't really know any beekeepers here so I can't just come get their swarms.  My work schedule is pretty hectic.  So I can't just drop everything to go on swarm calls.  So it seems my only option is swarm traps as a few places and keep my fingers crossed.
Logged

Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2013, 01:43:13 AM »

just a thought but would russians be a better choice up there?
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2013, 03:53:53 AM »

just a thought but would russians be a better choice up there?

as far as I know, Russians are not ordinary bees. They have strange habits.

It is not race question which thrive in Minnesota. It is  special strains  which have instinct to react properly on local climate, and I do not believe that package queens from south has that ability.

Yes, I am full of Minnesota winter. It is so harsh that you must feed  honey balls in the middle of winter and give out feeding when it comes warm spell. These guys know how to kill your hives if yourself do not know how to do it.


Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2013, 03:56:33 AM »

.
A free advice

find an experinced beekeeper  nearby who helps you in your hobby.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
T Beek
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2776


Location: USA, N/W Wisconsin


« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2013, 07:08:40 AM »

I agree w/ Finski; The specific breed makes only a 'little' difference if any.  IMHO, Bee and Queen Packages from hundreds or a thousand miles away are not the optimal in any case, but is what is readily available.  So buy the best you can find if you must buy bees, even if more costly than most.  

"Good bees ain't cheap, Cheap bees ain't good"  grin

I think that is slowly changing as more beeks, especially some Northerners are raising 'overwintered NUCs and /or queens and selling locally.  This is a movement I strongly support and encourage as I believe that our specific 'regional' bees will become our best local survivors for no better reason than common sense.

Ideally we want bees that are adapted to our particular climate, especially in Northern regions with extreme winters, and the only way to accomplish that is to either purchase bees from a "trusted" local beek or successfully overwinter your own.  Even those swarms caught should be suspect as they are more than likely just some poor beeks first year package, maybe even our own  Wink.

After surviving 2 northern winters I think we can call any colony of bees successfully 'adapted' to the region.  That's my personal rule anyway and those are the bees you want to make splits/ NUCS/Queens.  Not an untried first year package that came from 'who knows' where.  It can be done w/ a 1st year package but to assure greater success splits/NUCS should come from 'proven' colonies.
Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2013, 08:03:10 AM »

I agree w/ Finski; The specific breed makes only a 'little' difference if any.  

yes, difference is small. Hive is in spring dead or alive.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2219


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2013, 07:56:56 PM »

**Continue to super as needed (wishful thinking most likely.  Will be happy to get them up to 3 deeps.)
5. Come July purchase a carniolan queen.  Take an Italian queen and put in nuc.  Put carni in original hive.**

 How you going to accomplish your goals in the time frame --starting package when -may 1---july
the way i read this you already got bees for splits and surplus honey---in two maybe three months

 need to fine tune plan  cool--what are your goals??  are you hopping to make lots of increase of colonies
or are you hopping for a honey crop--  drawn comb is a big limiting factor-must have plenty drawn comb
  Smiley heres some ideas for increase--overzealous in my book but theory has merit
 
  http://www.mdasplitter.com/docs/OTS.pdf       :)RDY-B
Logged
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2013, 08:56:28 PM »

i'm not so sure there will be many beekeepers up there willing to give away their survivor stock.  my thought on the russians is that they are a "cold weather" variety if i understand what i've read about them.  there may be a better chance of getting some of them through a northern winter than italians or carniolans.  i'm not disagreeing with the "local stock" theory.  if you read my first post you'll see that's just what i said.  if you follow the thread you'll see that the op said there are no nearby beekeepers and he's never seen a swarm up there. 
back in the 70's and 80's we shipped packages and queens up there every spring because the commercial beekeepers didn't bother trying to winter the bees.  it was easier for them to just buy more every year.
i've been through minnesota in late november.  i feel for you.
it was sunny and in the low 70's down here today and should be again tomorrow.  i went through three hives and did a little comb manipulation in the brood chambers and they all had a good deal of nectar that they didn't have a few days ago.  i'd say it is about to be "on" in middle georgia. 
i haven't done much research on queen breeders because i'll be raising my own but if you could find some from kentucky or tn.  you'd stand a little better chance.
wintering isn't a big problem down here.  i'm more interested in bees that can battle mites and beetles.
in the end i don't think you can expand as rapidly as you'd like to.  if i were you i'd focus on just building up 8 of the strongest hives you can this year and leaving as much honey as possible on them. 
if you can keep the nucs in a more climate controlled environment and don't mind feeding them you might consider trying that this season.  keeping the good ole southern italian queens would be good for that because you could expect them to build up earlier than other varieties of bees.  if it works requeen the hives you start with them and do it again next year.
whatever you do i hope it works out for you.  cold winters and short flows (along with pretty serious drought conditions last year) would make beekeeping pretty challenging.
Logged
Bush_84
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342

Location: Brainerd, MN


« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2013, 06:33:51 PM »

**Continue to super as needed (wishful thinking most likely.  Will be happy to get them up to 3 deeps.)
5. Come July purchase a carniolan queen.  Take an Italian queen and put in nuc.  Put carni in original hive.**

 How you going to accomplish your goals in the time frame --starting package when -may 1---july
the way i read this you already got bees for splits and surplus honey---in two maybe three months

 need to fine tune plan  cool--what are your goals??  are you hopping to make lots of increase of colonies
or are you hopping for a honey crop--  drawn comb is a big limiting factor-must have plenty drawn comb
  Smiley heres some ideas for increase--overzealous in my book but theory has merit
 
  http://www.mdasplitter.com/docs/OTS.pdf       :)RDY-B


Ya I am certain it is.  Again I would rather be aware of what my procedure is going to be if I get to that point.  I am trying to get my plan set for his year, but also trying to tease out what my standard procedure will be.  So if things seem a bit off as far as expectations please don't think that I am completely clueless.  I do understand that my goals are lofty, but I do hope that giving each hive about a box and a half of already drawn comb and some capped honey will give them a good head start.  Others in my area told me that a new nuc in the spring have the potential to give me a 100 lb harvest.  Maybe that's on drawn comb, but the gentleman knew that I was new. 

Just because it keeps coming up about what my goals are I will prioritize them in descending order from most important to least important. 

- have 8 strong colonies going into October with low mite counts
-build up my 8 packages to 3 deeps.
-get maybe a medium or two of honey total not per hive
- get one or two nucs made before August started with bought in mated queens
- rear queens If nothing else just to learn

Again I understand that not all of these things will happen.  Since these are of varying importance to me I will make sure the top goal is sure to be accomplished before I move down to the next.  If I don't even manage to attain the first goal I would still like to set some goals and priorities. Rearing queens seems practically unattainable as does making nucs, but I would do it if I had the ability. 

So another question, how strong would a colony have to be to pull a frame of brood and bees off of it?  Two full 8 frame deeps?  Three full 8 frame deeps?

Also as to the three deep tower, the way I figure it is if I use three 8 frame deeps I will have 24 combs.  If I use two 10 frame deeps I have 20.  If I only use two 8 frame deeps I only have 16 frames.  I would rather have the extra 4 combs than be short 4 compared to others in the area.  I also figure it would give me more spring flexibility.  I have the ability to give bees two directions to expand their brood nest, above and below.  They can expand as they wish, but will have plenty of space to do so. 

Then next year my goals assuming some winter survivability would look like this.

-have 10 strong colonies going into october with low mite counts.
-build up hives to three deeps.
-2-4 mediums of honey total.
-rear queens using cloake board
- use queens to create 4-6 nucs.
- get more honey than allotted above

This will surely depend on the quality and quantity of hives that make it through the next winter.  If they all die I will likely revert to my previous goals.  If I only have one or two hives make it I will have to change my quantity of hives going into winter decreased as I am not sure I could convince my wife that buying this many packages every year is economically feasible, but would still be able to rear queens and make splits from wintered stock. 
Logged

Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2219


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2013, 07:23:08 PM »

**So another question, how strong would a colony have to be to pull a frame of brood and bees off of it? **

 If there is 4 frames of sealed brood taking a frame wont hurt your hive-you can pull from all 8 hives
if you start them in may-then july and again august harvest a frame of brood-for nucs-If you buy mated queens
 for your nucs then your risk is lower and the brood wont be wasted on a failed attempt at queens-you can always
combine everything back at the end of the season for strong hive to get through winter-If you learn to control
mites and feed protein in sept for strong winter bee population you will be smiling next spring-- Smiley RDY-B
Logged
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2271


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2013, 07:39:54 PM »


I would not winter in 3 deeps, that just sounds crazy to me.   



Mike Palmer of French Hill Apiaries, St. Albans, Vermont does this all the time in (3-10 frame deeps boxes)he all so overwinters (1-4 frames deep nuc)

 
Mike Palmer 4/2011 The Sustainable Apiary Part 1 of 2 on Vimeo


 
Mike Palmer2 4/2011- The Sustainable Apiary Part 2 of 2 on Vimeo






           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2013, 08:26:30 PM »

^^^ i agree with jim.  i don't see any real negative in trying to winter hives 3 deeps tall if there are plenty of bees and plenty stores. 
my plans are to go into winter with double deeps with one medium each on top of them.  my winter conditions are very different, though.  i don't want to feed.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2013, 12:17:24 AM »


I would not winter in 3 deeps, that just sounds crazy to me.   


Mike Palmer of French Hill Apiaries, St. Albans, Vermont does this all the time in (3-10 frame deeps boxes)he all so overwinters (1-4 frames deep nuc)


           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

from one madness to another.

You cannot say forehead  how you winter. You see before autumn, how much broof frames hive had and the wintering cluster needs a such wintering space.

Wintering in 3 frame nucs is nonsense. Even if hive is alive in spring, a queen and handfull of  bees, it is not a viable unit.
A guy just losted all hives and you are advicing how to loose next winter all his 8 hives again. Come on.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 12:30:19 AM »

^^^ i agree with jim.  i don't see any real negative in trying to winter hives 3 deeps tall if there are plenty of bees and plenty stores. 
my plans are to go into winter with double deeps with one medium each on top of them.  my winter conditions are very different, though.  i don't want to feed.


wintering in harsh climate:

rule 1: constrict the the wintering space according the size of colony.

It is pure madness to winter bees in 3 boxes.
Second madness: I don't want to feed!

3 langstroth boxes has honey  3x25 kg =  75 kg.  holy chip.

This forum does not help beginners. This should be closed at once.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2271


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 04:13:55 AM »

^^^ i agree with jim.  i don't see any real negative in trying to winter hives 3 deeps tall if there are plenty of bees and plenty stores.  
my plans are to go into winter with double deeps with one medium each on top of them.  my winter conditions are very different, though.  i don't want to feed.


wintering in harsh climate:

rule 1: constrict the the wintering space according the size of colony.

It is pure madness to winter bees in 3 boxes.
Second madness: I don't want to feed!

3 langstroth boxes has honey  3x25 kg =  75 kg.  holy chip.

This forum does not help beginners. This should be closed at once.

.

Finski... Are you a beginner Huh

I see by your posts you know very little about Northern Vermont USA winter time





                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:29:27 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2013, 06:23:13 AM »

[quote
Finski... Are you a beginner Huh

I see by your posts you know very little about Northern Vermont USA winter time


why I should know?

And what ever it is, I have nothing to learn about North American hive wintering.

.

 
.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 08:23:02 AM by Finski » Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
10framer
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509

Location: Butler,GA


« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 08:32:35 AM »

^^^ i agree with jim.  i don't see any real negative in trying to winter hives 3 deeps tall if there are plenty of bees and plenty stores. 
my plans are to go into winter with double deeps with one medium each on top of them.  my winter conditions are very different, though.  i don't want to feed.


wintering in harsh climate:

rule 1: constrict the the wintering space according the size of colony.

It is pure madness to winter bees in 3 boxes.
Second madness: I don't want to feed!

3 langstroth boxes has honey  3x25 kg =  75 kg.  holy chip.

This forum does not help beginners. This should be closed at once.

and if you read what i said "plenty of bees and stores" and what the op said "3 8 frame deeps" you'll see that you're agreeing with me by your own argument.   

Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 11:43:16 AM »

.
What ever, bees are wild animals and they do not follow plans.

First of all,  a beekeeper must know the year cycle of that wild bug  that he may lead bees to wanted direction.  but it  is better watch what bees do and then make own steps,  what now.

Bush's plan is really heavy. 8 packages and nucs and this and that.  for beginner that is enormous amount of boxes,  floors, covers....huge yields,  huge extracting, wintering with honey,   comb  building without  foundation.  Mission impossible.

Like bush says, he has hectic at work....no time to do that or that...

ok, lets think that all goes fine. Next spring  he has 15 hives with 2 years  experience....
A little bit hectic. Even good luck will not help.

We have a proverb: "cold coffee makes more beautifull, but even it cannot   make miracles".

.
Bush, best you can do is to find an experience beek nearby, who helps you in your mission.
.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Bush_84
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342

Location: Brainerd, MN


« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 01:44:57 PM »

I have all the equipment needed for spring.  I have been reading for three years and practicing for two.  That does not make me an expert, but that does not make me clueless either.  I have been practicing foundationless beekeeping for two years and have yet to have a huge setback from going foundationless.  That however was on a smaller scale.  I am pondering using some foundation with my new hives in limited quantities.  It doubles the cost of frames, but would take out some of the uncertainty. 

I said I do not have time to drop everything and catch swarms.  I did not say that I did not have time to manage my hives.  Big difference.  With hive management I can look ahead at my schedule and plan out inspections.  What I can't do is predict when a swarm will land on a tree and then take off.  The way I figure as soon as I manage to get out there they will be gone.  I know that there are maybe a few beeks in the area, but I will have better odds at catching a swarm with a box in a tree than actually dumping a clump in a box. 

I would join the local club but it's very political.  I work most nights that they hold their meetings.  So joining is useless.  Outside of that club I don't know any other beeks.  I am not a dumb individual.  I have an advanced education.  So I can read and figure this out.  Again finski my main goals are prioritized.  My mail goal is get these hives established.  If for some reason I am only able to establish four strong hives then that is what I want.  In the future however I do want to make splits, rear queens, and make nucs. 
Logged

Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 1.391 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 07, 2014, 04:03:56 AM