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Author Topic: Narrow frame Bee Keeping  (Read 1685 times)

Offline Georgia Boy

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Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« on: February 22, 2013, 08:38:47 PM »

Hey guys,

Was reading on Michael Bushs site about narrow frame bee keeping and bee space. Need to know your thoughts on this please.

Worth the trouble of cutting down frames????

Thanks

David.
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Offline bailey

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »
Theory is sound.  But getting the first frame out of a 10 frame box is hard enough. 
I'm not sure if the 11 frame setup would be easier or more difficult.
Mike would be your best info on this one.
Bailey
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Offline Georgia Boy

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 09:45:39 PM »
Yes those were my thoughts to. Plus I'll be doing 8 frame supers so I don't know if you can put 9 narrow in an 8 regular super or not. Right now I think I need to focus on the basics and do trials later.

Thanks

I might be, as usual, getting WAY ahead of myself. LOL  :-D
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Offline bailey

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 10:18:11 PM »
Check with mike.  That's the best answer I can think of.
most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.

Offline Vance G

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 10:43:59 PM »
I run my frames thru a tablesaw set at 1 1/4".   I use a sharpie and draw a vee toward the uncut side and keep them in that direction so spacing is maintained.  I am using 4.9mm foundation and just as Mr. Bush says it helps the bees draw smaller cells  and my observation is the frames are drawn better quality.  The 11 frames when drawn are indeed  tight and I think follower boards are in my future running   10. 

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 11:08:18 PM »
I would think the same as bailey.  Hard enough to get the frames you already have in there.  I wouldn't mess with honey supers.  Those combs need to be thicker. 
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline rwurster

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2013, 03:59:23 PM »
I made some narrow frames and have regretted that decision ever since.  Swapping the narrow frames of comb from dead outs to other hives that aren't narrow frame is a pain, doing splits creates a need for more narrow frames.  If I only had a few hives it wouldn't be such a big deal but I ended up cutting the comb out of mine and putting it into regular frames.  The idea is novel and I wouldn't mind entertaining it but with more than 25 hive one has to go all narrow or don't.
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Offline Georgia Boy

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2013, 06:51:46 PM »
Thanks rwurster,

since I am new and have not gotten my hive bodies yet I still have time to cut down my frames, however since my nucs I am getting won't be narrow frame, I may not cut them.

Thanks again for responding.

David
"Give it All You've Got"
"Never give up. Never surrender."

Offline Vance G

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2013, 07:02:32 PM »
I have no problem mixing wide and narrow drawn frames.  You just have to hand space like I do normally on supers anyway.  In the brood nest, you just have to be aware of working bee space so the emerging brood can get out and the bees can work.  The main reason I shave them in the first place is because the bees draw better sc comb for me.  It is just one of the million ways of doing things.  If it works and doesn't hurt the bees, it is not wrong. 

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 05:21:44 PM »
It's always surprising in life when you realize that something causes the opposite results that you expected.  Tighter spacing makes frames easier to get out as they are flatter and not as uneven.  Looser spacing makes them harder to get out as they are uneven with honey protruding which then catches bees and rolls them.

"...if the space is insufficient, the bees shorten the cells on the side of one comb, thus rendering that side useless; and if placed more than the usual width, it requires a greater amount of bees to cover the brood, as also to raise the temperature to the proper degree for building comb, Second, when the combs are too widely spaced, the bees while refilling them with stores, lengthen the cells and thus make the comb thick and irregular--the application of the knife is then the only remedy to reduce them to proper thickness."--J.S. Harbison, The bee-keeper's directory pg 32

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
Michael Bush
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 06:34:47 PM »
I agree with Michael about the flatter combs.  I have spaced my jumbo frames at 33mm and end up with flat combs.  My deeps spaced at the standard 35mm eventually start growing honey humps on them and can become a mess.  The poor design of the Hoffman end bars just exacerbates the problem over time as propolis builds up on them and the spacing grows.  However I don’t bother with retrofitting deeps or medium brood frames down to 32mm; just more work than I want to do.

Offline Georgia Boy

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 10:19:57 PM »
Thanks Guys for all the input. I think I've made up my mind on how to go. 

How to find a good table saw that won't break the bank. LOL  :)

Thanks again. Any more comments?  All are welcome.
"Give it All You've Got"
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 12:06:32 PM »
If you only have a few to do, a plane works fine and is cheaper and safer...
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline Georgia Boy

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 09:09:17 PM »
Thanks Michael,

Define a few???  Have 200 now fixing to get 200 more. To some of you thats a few. :)
To me its a lot. LOL :)
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Narrow frame Bee Keeping
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2013, 03:54:01 PM »
Well, I've planed down at least 200... so I guess that was few enough for me... few is up to you.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen